Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
|
There is no putting the younger generation in their place.
Never worked before.
The only thing that works is hoping we live long enough to get a little older.
|
|
ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
|
The young 'uns learn...one way or another.
This IS the school of hard knocks!
And although the same can be said of life in general, but I've found that climbing is an especially a good example.
After all, how are we supposed to learn that simul rapping is inherently dangerous unless we do it?!!
So...does this whole 'putting me in my place' mean I still get to lead the pitches with the 'tight hands'?
hehehe
Cheers
LS
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
|
I think that we could quote that font of American wisdom, Forrest Gump:
"Stupid is, as stupid does."
I don't really think any "fossiliferous old curmudgeon trad master" wants to "Put anyone in their place." That statement alone, is STUPID.
The discourse we should be having is more along the lines as "how can we help our brethren to be less apt to get killed?"
|
|
Sciurus
Sport climber
St. George UT
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
|
I think that we could quote that font of American wisdom, Forrest Gump:
"Stupid is, as stupid does."
I don't really think any "fossiliferous old curmudgeon trad master" wants to "Put anyone in their place." That statement alone, is STUPID.
I tend to subscribe to the view that calling other people stupid is never a particularly good or constructive idea. But to each their own...
|
|
tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
|
How do we know the photo of Collete was not staged for this article? Kind of funny that the person photographing her would not have picked up on the big no no's in her set-up.
At any rate ,for some these oversights may not be a big deal but through out the years(young generation/ old generation) there have been many folks scraped off the ground for not being redundant in their system or backing themselves up, belaying off chains/ rap stations, etc. Werner picked up on it because he has had to scrape them up. Sh#t happens.
|
|
Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
|
This analogy from Raleigh's article resonates with me:
...Today, you don’t have to know much to go up and up—there are thousands of routes primed for you with fixed quickdraws and lowering stations equipped with carabiners. Clipping up these lines is like eating without learning how to cook. All is well until the meal isn’t prepared for you...
He is not claiming a generational deficiency here--only that those learning to climb in a gym are likely to run into unforeseen (by them) issues when taking their new hobby outside. The article only appears to be generation specific because so many younger climbers do learn how to climb in that manner. The article would, however, apply equally to a 50 year old who also learned how to climb in a gym.
Curt
|
|
Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2013 - 05:37pm PT
|
FACT: OLD DUDES R A BUNCHA H8RS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But we only hate stupid people.
Curt
|
|
rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
|
Modern climbing instruction and commercialization seeks to reduce risk rather than build an understanding of it. It tries to ELIMINATE MISTAKES and that my friends, is a mistake.
This insight from DMT is the absolute core of the matter!
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2013 - 08:15am PT
|
I do not go to climbing gyms. Refuse to.
At my local crag though, Castle Rock State Park, I run into all kinds of, "this is my first time outdoors" types. Always cool people, despite their gym-card still clipped to their harness.
I welcome them. I usually point to Largo's anchor books and tell them to get out more. Gyms are gay. The outdoors is real.
Most are incredibly overwhelmed with the awesomeness of climbing in the real world. I love watching it happen, even as my ole' stomping grounds gets inundated with noobs!
|
|
patrick compton
Trad climber
van
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2013 - 08:48am PT
|
Thanks for not being another straight guy in our overcrowded gay gyms.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2013 - 08:56am PT
|
Thanks for not being another straight guy in our overcrowded gay gyms.
You're welcome. Glaad to help out.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2013 - 09:46am PT
|
Didn't you know....this is the "You Hurt My Feelings" generation.
Hey Gen Y, have some humility, like the rest of us, and take critisizm when it's given.
bingo.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2013 - 10:04am PT
|
People don't change, the circumstances under which they learn do. I started climbing in the 60's. Goldline ropes, swami belts, pitons and lugged klettershues comprised the gear. Nuts were in their nacent form and smooth soled shoes were just around the corner.....harnesses and cams were a decade away. Sport climbing and gyms were several decades in the future.
The mantra "the leader must never fall" reigned supreme. We worked our way s l o w l y up the grades. We didn't climb hard by today's standards but we learned HOW to do the things that get you back down in one piece. Our climbing standards may have been low but our climbing IQ was high.
Today.....most climbers start in a gym. They then migrate outdoors to single pitch sport climbing and some go onto trad, then multi-pitch. The "circumstances" of their learning process leads them to develop a high standard of climbing ability before they thoroughly learn the attendant skills......high climbing ability, low climbing IQ. It's not their fault, they are not a different species, it's simply the system they are coming up under.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2013 - 10:13am PT
|
Yeah, its a brave new world.
Survive your stupidities for a few years and you are not only an "expert" you are guide material.
I will probably never cease to be amazed at how often stupidity doesn't kill.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2013 - 10:42am PT
|
Modern climbing instruction and commercialization seeks to reduce risk rather than build an understanding of it. It tries to ELIMINATE MISTAKES and that my friends, is a mistake.
Another gem by El Dingo.
|
|
Rudder
Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
|
I'm repeating myself... but I continue to say... I just wish the new people would read about the history of climbing. That's all I ask. :)
|
|
ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
|
I don't know anything about history...
but if you keeping talking about how great climbing is, the gymbies will keep coming.
I keep telling all my young friends that climbing is stupid and kinda pointless, even if we are looking at cool climbing pics.
It keeps most of MY friends away from the rock. You should try it!
And then when you hear that one crazy gym n00b who says...'hey, I'm into that kinda thing...really...for realz! See?' you can begin the long long audition process.
Nothing weeds out the norms from the crazies like a good long audition process.
That's how I made it onto the Taco afterall!
2p
Cheers
LS
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2013 - 05:39pm PT
|
High climbing ability, low climbing IQ. It's not their fault, they are not a different species, it's simply the system they are coming up under.
Truth, Jim. I, too, learned with Goldline, kletterschue, pitons and the newest thing, a swami belt. The other truth that we don't often say, though, is that our early climbing was good training because we survived. I could very easily have died if any of my questionable placements or, worse yet, anchors had pulled.
John
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!