Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 10:30am PT
|
skip, sweetie, forget about this falling business. i don't care what bob gaines taught you, you don't have to do this.
|
|
Prod
Trad climber
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 10:32am PT
|
I love posting this pic of my wife....
and this one...
Prod.
|
|
FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 11:39am PT
|
do you think he might have meant the person on the other end of the string.
|
|
Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 11:59am PT
|
getting back to you,
Falling on a slab route is a bit like the situation of falling on a really steep icy mogul field. Have you ever watched someone fall on such a slope, lose control and go all the way to the bottom, injured or dead? I have at Heavenly once. The gal fell, was laughing initially, didn’t try to stop herself with all that she had, began to really rocket off every bump, half-airborn pretty quickly, and I think died right before our eyes as she slid to a passive stop hundreds of feet lower.
At first blush, no problem--- falling is maybe even a relief from the super-hard moves you were trying to pull off. But your acceleration is quite immediate and within a couple seconds or so, your speed is unmanageable as you loft off of variations on the terrain--- moguls in the snow or edges on the rock--- and you just are that much weight---a thing--- roaring off to meet its maker like rockfall and only tentatively to earth. So staying flat, pressing with the feet spread somewhat apart essentially trying brake, edge and glissade may work in the early phases of a slab fall. In fact, sometimes depending on the angle, you can even sort of ski the slab fall a little and maybe catch stuff either to slow or stop your fall. But if the acceleration is allowed to continue, such falls can be really unique and terrible--- worse than some falls in the vertical. It is better to be abraided than to be somersaulting. The angular velocity of your upper body rotating over your feet when they get stopped while rocketing downwards will be far greater than you can somehow mitigate--- it will not be an intuited quantity but much greater. Anyway, you should accept that you might ruin your shoes trying to control yourself but the alternative is much worse.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 12:24pm PT
|
Arrange to have me belay you. I've caught, literally, three falls.
OK, since I couldn't get out of the way doesn't mean I shouldn't get a medal, does it?
|
|
justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 23, 2010 - 12:32pm PT
|
Thanks for posting Peter. Very informative.
Don't fret Tony. I have absolutely no intentions testing any of this out in person. It's purely academic curiosity. I generally avoid
falling at all costs. I got no pride. If I have to hang on a piece of gear every 5 feet so be it, and I'm way too chicken to get on
runout slab these days. I get skeerd walking up a steep driveway.
|
|
sieczk
Trad climber
Reno, NV
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 12:37pm PT
|
Saw this posted by "Knoback" on SP; felt it applied here:
Since you are about to fall, it is vital to prepare for the aftermath, 'cause, let's face it, if you whip in that situation, you are not going back up to finish the climb that day. Don't start to back down. Use those precious seconds to make some angry noises. If you can still talk, start to complain about how the gumby who climbed this last greased up the holds, unless, of course, this is your second burn. Curse the weight of your rope/draws/chalkbag/harness. Comment on the poor quality of your shoe rubber. If you can't think of anything else yell out, "Dude, tension!". Practice this at home. The tone has to be neutral. Your belayer will think you mean "Provide tension" (which is actually what you want), but when you get back on the deck you will be able to maintain that you meant "watch the tension", implying that they pulled you off. This is much better than saying, "Dude, you're pulling me off!" which may result in unwanted penalty slack. When you do peel, by all means yell, but make it an angry roar, not a high pitched squeal. Make sure to kick the wall when you swing back in after the fall. Begin to swear as soon as you are physically able.
I practice this daily.
|
|
Darwin
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 12:58pm PT
|
I've only fallen twice on lead in 40+ years of climbing, so I'm not an expert on this. But, I think think that the gym-guy may have been thinking of keeping you aware of where the rope is running. As a mechanically oriented person, I am haunted by visions of the rope catching under my thigh, turning me upside down and slinging my head against the rock. I'm often surprised by good smart climbers who let the rope run under their leg, then off to the side making this more likely.
I don't know if you all saw the horrifying series of photos in the recent Rock and Ice (Mongolia, neat story), where the reader and photographer think they are seeing someone die in a fall (it had a happy ending). I know it's stupid to analyze from so afar, but the climber was falling head first back to the rock, and it sure looked like the rope spun her around.
Completely off topic, but it's a snow day in Seattle.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 01:24pm PT
|
Skip you know I was kidding about the head over heels and cartwheeling stuff, right?
I've never taken a really big fall on a slab, although I came way too close once when a knob I was high stepping broke on some deal in The Meadows called Miss Adventure. That would have been educational, but a huge shot of adrenaline kept me latched on to who knows what.
Shorter slabby skids in the 20-30 ft range usually go okay so long as there is nothing like a ledge to hit. Usually for about the first half you can kinda keep it in control, and things happen slowly enough that your belayer should be reeling in rope. Once you really lose it avoid letting your feet catch on the wall, the rubber will stick and you'll likely turn or even break an ankle.
Falling on a vertical face I usually prefer a soft catch, for the belayer to actually give some. This reduces the force with which you swing back into the cliff.
Good belaying is key. If you know that your belayer is going to do the right thing it's easier to stay focused on managing your fall instead of panicking.
|
|
Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 03:58pm PT
|
The hardest routes I've ever done have been slab. The reason for this is because once you get up there, falling is NOT an option.
|
|
Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 04:13pm PT
|
Just got in on this one...
JTM - Realize that none of that advise works well with slab.
here is my advise:
grab sack (female can grab other things, know'm'sain?
scream something having to do with the fact that you have lost grip (in my case this has much to do with the mindset going into the climb to begin with, so belayer is aware before liftoff)
be sure that legs are not over the rope (flipping danger)
point ass toward the ground (not good for bouldering)
check padding
replace wet underwear (when its all said and done)
thank your lucky stars for the prec-limb knot check
as you are lowered off feel the sensation of testicles descending (females replace testies with bowels)
untie, and sit in shame for having fallen off that 5.9... again!!!!
cheers.
To be honest, if one take a real lead fall where a hold breaks, or a foot pops, or a hand slips.. there is no time to run a checklist, sh#t just happens and you hope for an attentive belay.
That's all
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 04:21pm PT
|
you guys need to do some free climbing, once your off the rope, you will never fall, because you will be climbing at a level that is better than the rock.
now when you rope up, you have the option to try stuff that you would never do free climbing, thus, the rope burns and busted teeth.
i would rather just get konked out on the head than suffer that sh#t, sheesh, you guys are killin me.
who falls on a slab climb? you would have to be drunk.
|
|
StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 04:55pm PT
|
Screaming "watch me!!!" at your belayer in a high pitched voice a few times before you come off is usually a good start.
Really old school says the leader is not allowed to fall
|
|
dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 05:57pm PT
|
Yeah, what Stahlbro said.
The leader must not fall, you know when your running hemp rope, Pivettas, bowline on a coil, threads etc.
Climb to the top, dulfersitz on down.
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 07:00pm PT
|
one good, natural margin of insurance against long leader falls is to develop your downclimbing ability. downclimbing isn't as natural as upclimbing and requires practice of its own. everyone wants to be a go-for-it hero, up, up, up, never retreat. i say you get there by listening to yourself and your leading ability and developing your judgment, and downclimbing is part of that.
remember, every foot you retreat is two feet shaved off the gravity accelerator. i often retreat a difficult lead to a resting point, sometimes a time or two, then finally go for it. i think that counts as onsighting.
|
|
dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2010 - 08:37pm PT
|
Aid lead falls are better than free lead falls.
When aiding the fall is instantaneous and unexpected. One second you are hanging there and the next you are dangling somewhere down below. There is no time to really grip up.
Preceding a free lead fall you are sketching and or pumping BAD. You have some time to anticipate the plunge and it ain't fun. Sometimes a free lead fall is quick and easy but not too often.
It is better to just power through!
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2010 - 12:19am PT
|
It is better to just power through!
that philosophy netted me a good 40-foot fall early in my climbing career and i kissed it a fond goodbye.
but that's the thing--probably works for dee, within his limits. i've got my sense of fall tuned pretty sharp and i know if i'm going to climb something or fall on it. something just clicks--developed with a long habit. the leads feel good, and often, i daresay, bold. sometimes i've broken through my ceiling and that feels even better and i can set my sights higher. but don't expect miracles. if you're a 5.10 climber, don't expect to power through on 5.12 territory.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!