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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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May 12, 2012 - 02:09am PT
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wanted to put in a plug for my beloved vehicle.
I have a 2000 honda CRV, it has the acura B20B engine standard (probable honda's best engine). It has 205k hard miles on it. I have put more than a few thousand miles on gnarly washboard. Great clearance, AWD, and reliable as all get out. The only major work was due to soft valve seats at 160k. I bought an acura head and replaced it in an afternoon. Cost me 300 bucks total, mostly from the dealer gasket kit I bought. Other than that nothing aside from fluids, brakes, and tires. I still have the original shocks. Oh, and the tires are cheap, the last set cost me 300 bucks. I have lived in it for months. I have put 6 kayaks on the roof with some creative rigging. I would replace it, but it still seems to be going so strong. Probably good for at least another 50k. Debating at this point if I should put a new timing belt on it, or just drive it till it seizes (I worry about belts and interference engines). The transmission has always spooked me since I got he car at 60k, but so far it has never miss shifted.
I have never had a more trouble free car, and I don't expect to have another. The freaking AC still blows cold for goodness sake.
I took it into fordyce lake last summer, without an issue. Everyone in their modified wranglers thought I was crazy. I probably was, but they were all thinking of going down the rubicon...I was not.
Hell it was stolen on a red rocks trip last fall. It was found, and now its back better than ever! Best car around, never stranded me...
The last picture is on the way to redrocks before it was stolen. yes it went over a hundred, and yes those are earplugs (everyone should have a stash)! Lots more miles since then.
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Kirkwood, ca
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May 12, 2012 - 02:16am PT
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That's a sweet car! I lived in my car for awhile too....probably a year total but broken up during different periods. Some good times, lots of freedom.
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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May 12, 2012 - 02:41am PT
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Honda or toyata compact suv...thats all there is for the vagabond. I might upsize to a pilot, or give up ground clearance to an element. Only time and auto fortunes can tell. The element has a sweet interior, but the ground clearance isn't quite there. With the crv, I never wished I had more, but occasionally, one has to sacrifice the paint to make it happen. This is pretty tempting if I had some bucks for a rig...
http://www.ursaminorvehicles.com/camper.htm
They do a good job I hear.
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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May 12, 2012 - 02:42am PT
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Man, I hope the crv never dies, but the suspense is killing me. The odometer keeps ticking and that makes me wary.
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kc
Trad climber
the cats
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May 12, 2012 - 09:31am PT
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Hmmmm. Well, I really like my Forester, but the gas situation does suck.
I know a few people who have a Ford Escape (hybrid) that they use for climbing cars. There is all kinds of room in there, and the gas mileage is pretty good (sorry, no numbers available).
Might be worth checking out/adding to the list.
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adam d
climber
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May 12, 2012 - 11:59am PT
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Gave up my 4WD for MPG and bought a Honda Fit in 2008. 50k now and no problems, just got 39mpg back and forth to the Valley, loaded with a 3 day weekend load and another dude. Averages 33mpg for around town driving. The seat arrangement is really useful for all kinds of cargo, I can fit a 6'2" surfboard in the back without disrupting the front seats. Lower clearance but it still manages on lots of dirt roads, even some minor stream crossings (though I did get shut down a mile before High Eagle Dome and have to jump in with my buddy). The best form of MPG though? Fewer miles and walking to work.
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Gilwad
climber
Frozen In Somewhere
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May 12, 2012 - 12:01pm PT
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In the last four years I've had a lot of the vehicles in this discussion. Right now I'm rocking a 2001 Jetta TDI and a Toyota Sienna. Notes on the cars mentioned in no particular order:
2008 Matrix: Best interior layout of any car I've ever owned. You can put an 8-foot 2x10 in there and close the door, amazing. But terribly underpowered; driving on the highway with any hills at all with the manual is like hiking up scree, pain in the ass. The drive-by-wire throttle sucks too. Sold it--was getting less than 30MPG driving on the highway at normal speed, ridiculous, and totally gutless to go up hills. If I could get one of these with the VW Diesel I'd buy it. Super annoying driving experience.
Subaru Outback (2006 version): Second best car I've ever had in the snow (best was an audi 4000Q). Super solid. First gear annoyingly high, hard on the clutch. OK gas mileage to about 60, then horrible, atrocious mileage at the standard 75. Might be better with the auto, but the standard revs too high. Averaged low 20s in MPG, like 18-24 best-case at normal speeds. Not uncommon.
Toyota Tacoma 2006 TRD Sport. Driving at 60 I could reliably get around 20mpg, sometimes a bit better. Driving at 75 or around town it was mid-teens at best. Great vehicle in the TRD Sport trim, reliable, tough (with new leaf springs), just sold it after a lot of miles. The MPG sticker on trucks and the real-world mileage seems to be dramatically different; a friend has a brand-new f-150, he's around 12 driving it around town and not a hell of a lot better on the freeway.
Toyota Sienna 2005 AWD: Really good van so far, love it. Pretty much the same or slightly better MPG as the Subaru around town, definitely better than the truck at speed (75mph). Lots of room, great in snow, really like it. Not good off-road, but OK for dirt, snow, conditions where I do 90 percent of my driving time.
2001 Jetta TDI: First vehicle I've ever had that is somehow more powerful and get BETTER mileage than I expected. It only puts out 100hp, but I can driving my normal routes in 5th gear. And get well over 40MPG in a mix of town and highway driving. The Matrix, with supposedly more HP, required near-continuous shifting at highway speed, and was a PITA. The TDI is awesome, just set it at 75 and kick back. I've rented these in Europe a few times, finally bought an inexpensive older one to try here, liking it a lot. Do my own fix-it stuff if it's simple, and there will be fix-it stuff.
Few other vehicles: Ford "Flex." Rented one, hated it, it's like driving a tank. Dodge Caravan, town and country, etc: Horrible. Brand-new ones don't compare to my older Sienna. Mazda3, 5, etc. Like them; fast, drive well, not sure on the MPG but seemed OK.
Passat Wagon: If I could get a Euro spec TDI I'd buy it, nice rigs, driven a bunch of them.
Audi TDI AWD wagon: As above, all over Europe.
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Gilwad
climber
Frozen In Somewhere
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May 12, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
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Forgot a couple opinions...
99-04 4Runners: Great off-road, OK at speed on the pavement, horrible highway driving in snow. I would much rather drive a fwd vehicle in the snow on the highway, tires being equal. The 4-runner's wheelbase is too short, it's too high, hated it on-road. Also terrible for towing. Great off-road in snow, mud, or whatever.
93 Toyota Pickup: Lousy MPG, but beyond tough. Beat the hell out of mine for five years, much of that time off-road. Good in the snow at highway speed too (drove it at 70+ MPH in 4wd for years with no issues). Great vehicles.
Tires: Hakkapalita studded. Nothing else is even remotely as good if you're actually driving on snow and ice. Blizzaks etc. OK for the odd bit of ice or snow, but if you really do most of your driving or important driving on snow and ice then studs simply kick ass on all else. There's a reason the Alaskans and Scandos all rock the studs of some kind, real traction in winter means studs. That said, I use Blizzaks on my Jetta, works fine for that environment.
AWD vs 4wd: A good FWD car with good winter tires will kick ass on a 4Runner or other SUV with the same tires driving at highway speed in winter conditions. At low speed with really deep snow the SUV will win. Short, high-CG SUVs suck in winter at speed, way unstable. A long wheel-base 4WD truck with good studded tires is the best overall winter vehicle for "harsh" conditions; everything else is a compromise for "limit" winter driving. But a Subaru on pure ice with studded snows will beat the truck most of the time... Shorter wheelbase 4WD trucks better off-road.
You can get a Subaru almost anywhere you can get a truck, but it'll be hard on the vehicle. I've taken rental VW sedans in deep too, but it's not good for them. But 99.99 percent of people don't really off-road much, or can walk the short distances they really need a truck for. Lots of gravel driving and beating on desert roads is better done in a truck with a suspension that'll take that.
Oh, and one amazing vehicle is the old Ford Aerostar AWD XLT, 97 best and last year, there's still one kicking around here that has just been beat to sh#t. If Ford made these brand-new I'd buy one, amazing AWD, decent mileage (not far off the Subaru, WTF?), tons of room, super simple good vehicles. That and the Ford Ranger are two of the better vehicles Ford has made I figure.
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Nor Cal
Trad climber
San Mateo
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May 12, 2012 - 01:17pm PT
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I've got a 99 Outback and I get 22 mpg in it. I also have a 1992 Hinda Civic VX and get about 45 mpg. Both cars are worth about $9k or less.
I took the civic to Yosemite last week and it cost us $45 round trip from the SF Peninsula.
The Subaru carries the kayaks & bikes and is great for winter fun. I wish it was not always 4 wheel drive as it would surely get better mileage if it had a 2wd option.
The civic is big enough for two people on a Yosemite trip and is great for my daily commute.
Its a tough call on a new car. Folks seem to despise the Prius, or at least the way most people seem to hold up traffic with them. I get almost as good of mileage in my 20 year old car that cost $3k.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 12, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
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Hey, my Volvo XC70 AWD tells me I'm getting 99.9 mpg all the time so I guess
I've got the best of both worlds!
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johngenx
climber
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May 12, 2012 - 05:27pm PT
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Looks like a Mazda3 to me. Still a decent car...
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Bargainhunter
climber
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May 12, 2012 - 05:54pm PT
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I've got to add my vote for the VW Jetta TDI, I bought mine new in 1998. It was the highest MPG sedan available at that time (the big window sticker in the salesroom read "49 MPG" - I still have it). I can also fold down the rear seat and sleep comfortably in back (I'm 6'2"), so it's great for stealth car camping in parking lots as no one expects someone to be sleeping in a Jetta sedan.
I've taken it on the worse roads imaginable, up and back to Alaska from California and across the country several times. I bolted on an Oden Skid plate to protect the underbody, which gives piece of mind when using it on 4WD type dirt roads or roads with hard ice chunks. With a roof rack and large Tule box, I can carry just about anything. I even installed a U-haul trailer hitch and have towed large capacity trailers fully loaded across the country on several occasions. Low end torque is great. When I first bought it, I experimented with it's top speed...hitting 130+mph on a flat stretch of the road south of Mammoth; it probably could have gone faster but the handling at that speed was scary.
Last weekend I drove from Fresno to Orange County and back with a trunk full of junk, going 80+ on the highway, with the AC blasting, and with lots of urban driving including up and down through the Hollywood and Malibu hills repeatedly. I other words, I wasn't trying to achieve high mileage, but my total MPG for that trip was more than 46+ MPG...and this was in a 14 year old car!
In terms of maintenance, I have had essentially no serious problems and work on it myself. There are plenty of online forums available to guide the shade tree/amateur mechanic (the Vag Com OBD interface is useful for this) if you are so inclined. Plus, it's a kind of a beater car so it attracts little attention from thieves at trailheads or sketchy urban street parking situations.
The bottom line, unless you have to drive on icy roads that require chains or FWD frequently, I'd opt for a high MPG TDI any day.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 12, 2012 - 08:50pm PT
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Diesels have a torque curve that looks like a box.
Back in the Carter years I had a Mazda pick up with a Perkins tractor engine in it. The thing got 33-36 mpg no matter how much you put in it or towed with it. Never did anything to the engine, but I did have to rebuild the transmission and upgraded the bearings. the engine was capable of more torque than it could handle.
When my Isuzu Rodeo was ready to die after 300K+ miles I was having the same internal debate. Another FWD or go for the mileage.
Got a Hamster mobile, (Kia Soul) 34mpg if I keep it at 65 or less. Better ground clearance than all the other econo boxes. The 2012s have the direct injection engine and even better gas mileage.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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May 12, 2012 - 11:11pm PT
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I've got a V6 Rav4. Get 22 mixed, 26-27 hwy. Not great, but its got lots of space, handles pretty well in the snow (even has locking diff). And it has tons of power. More than my previous Turbo Forester. 0-60 in mid-six seconds.
As for the general question, in CA I'd get a FWD unless I was always in the Sierra in winter. Where I live here in UT, I'm up a steep hill in the Wasatch foothills. AWD is pretty much a must. There have been several times we couldn't get our BMW 330(with Blizzaks) up the hill in winter.
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jstan
climber
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May 12, 2012 - 11:25pm PT
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When considering getting a new car with higher mileage one needs to calculate the present cost for both vehicles and subtract from the present cost of the old vehicle the opportunity cost the new vehicle presents. That opportunity cost will be the compounded interest over 20 years on the difference in the values of the cars.
An example. Suppose your present vehicle worth $5000 gets 16 mpg, you plan to drive 20,000 miles a year for 20 years( enough to depreciate both vehicles to zero), and assume a short term discount rate of 1% along with $4.10/gallon for the gas.
The other vehicle might be a Prius getting 53 mpg and costing $32,000.
In this case the present cost of the old car is only 4% higher than that for the Prius.
The best short term answer is to keep the old car and drive as little as you can. Note I am short changing the old vehicle by not including increased taxes and insurance on the Prius. The old car wins, handily if you estimate these costs also.
Mind you if you are hedging against an increase in the cost of gas to $10 or $12 per gallon, the Prius will win. In that case move to JT, put in solar power and get a plug-in Prius.
But at $10 to $12/gallon, your calculation will need also to put a value on the recreational pleasure you get every day from flipping the bird to the Koch brothers. To do this you will need to know how many gas stations you drive by each day.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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I do a fair bit of ice climbing and BC skiing. I opened my mind, for a moment, to consider a high-mileage rig like the Prius. But ultimately, I want the peace of mind knowing I'm probably not going to trash the underbelly or get stuck outside of Canmore with my dainty rice rhombus, twenty minutes into what would have been a full day of highly-anticipated climbing.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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TGT...What year was that perkins mazda....?
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Outback people: can you sleep in the back? It doesn't look like there's enough room
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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I didn't notice anyone mentioning the Prius battery packs. The reason the warranty only extends to 8yrs. Is because that's about the life expectincey of the batterys. Depending on amount of use, of coarse. I've "heard" of the battery pack removal, disposal,(these things could last million yrs. in the dump), and installation costing 10-12k. That's at least a grand a year! So check it out!
I think the Jetta TDI is the way to go.
IMO
BB
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