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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jun 28, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
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In Oklahoma and many other plains states, we are being overrun with eastern red cedar. They have taken over because of the lack of big prairie fires before white people showed up. In a fire, they go up like they are made of diesel fuel.
It is a big problem. Removing invasive species that cause trouble is a good thing, particularly when they cause problems. Just look at the Zebra mussel's in the Great Lakes. They showed up in ballast tanks of Asian ships. Now the beaches are solid zebra mussel shells, and they cause all kinds of problems with water intake pipelines.
Another nasty is the lamprey. Those things look like eels, have a round mouth which attaches to a big fish, and eats it until it dies.
Death by lamprey would be horrific if it happened to humans. They are like 3 foot long leeches.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Jun 28, 2013 - 09:30pm PT
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Yeah! Specially in Yosemite! Haha!
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 28, 2013 - 10:36pm PT
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I know some of you warmers have been stressed out about arctic sea ice with the plight of the hollywood Polar Bears and all.Seems it's shaping up to be one of the coldest summer seasons in Arctic history above 80 north.
http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jun 28, 2013 - 11:39pm PT
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What you need to consider however, is that when a tree dies the carbon that was stored in it is released back into the atmosphere (unless it’s preserved as timber in buildings, furniture etc).
What you need to consider is that you are Wrong. THOUSANDS of gigatonnes of carbon is stored in forest SOILS... more carbon storage than in all the living vegetation or in the atmosphere. That carbon is released when forest soils are degraded... by, say, clear cutting or high intensity fires.
Zebra mussels are headed toward Tahoe. Some here, I won't say who, are wrong in thinking they are no big deal and just another "eco-scare" to be disregarded. Same type of folk who would cry about the tourist/fishing industry being destroyed by not stalking Sierra lakes with invasive fish. I don't think they have been found in Tahoe yet (definitely some on incoming boats intercepted at the inspection stations), but imagine the tourist industry in Tahoe if the beaches were covered with Zebra mussels. I know we have Asian clams already... haven't seen any in person yet, just on the internet... they don't look that bad to me.
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raymond phule
climber
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Jun 29, 2013 - 02:24am PT
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Seems it's shaping up to be one of the coldest summer seasons in Arctic history above 80 north.
How do you manage to often make a claim that is obviosly not backed up with your link?
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mountainlion
Trad climber
California
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Jun 29, 2013 - 03:09am PT
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I like to read your take on the forests Ron--seems like you have a viewpoint that if you backed it up with citations or articles would be sound science...
I don't have a camera or I would post up a pick of a point that was given to me recently...also my grandfather made a few points of his own to see how they were made...also have a full blooded Cherokee as a grandfather but he married my grandmother after my mom's dad died long ago...
climate is going crazy with extreme weather events all around...hate to see the heat wave in the west with the fire season already in full swing...
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 29, 2013 - 09:59am PT
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^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 29, 2013 - 02:14pm PT
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Yeah Chief they will always twist any data or anomaly to validate their hysterical narrative. The facts are these guys don't live in Alaska and are ignorant to what is happening here and in high lattitudes around the planet. In Alaska, it was true that we warmed up considerably during the nineties with spring arriving earlier and fall later for nearly a decade. They are still talking about this event as if it is still occuring and the permafrost still melting rapidly. What's actually happening is a distinct cooling trend with 19 out of 20 official weather stations measuring on average a 2.4 f decline in temps over the last decade. We've had some very nasty winters of late, this year being the longest lasting in history around the globe at high lattitudes in spite of being in a point in the orbital and axial cycles where winter should be several days shorter than the mean in the northern hemisphere-exactly what we saw in the nineties. What will not be measured or reported until years later is that the total glacial mass in the state is increasing in response to the long, severe winters and on average cool summers of the last decade. Another thing that was buried beneath an avalanche of CAGW spin was that 2012's low sea ice extent was largely due to a couple of unusual Arctic wind storm events, not relentless rising heat, and that the total volume of sea ice loss last year did not match the loss of extent, it was forced into more localized areas of increased mass. Another thing buried under spin this last spring was that the amount of new sea ice formed over the 2012-2013 winter season was one of the highest extents in recorded history. I'm getting close to having collected enough information to refute this whole phony business in the mind of any sane layperson if i wanted to spend the time to write it out long form in the elaborate and coherent fashion it needs.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jun 29, 2013 - 02:44pm PT
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the total volume of sea ice loss last year did not match the loss of extent
Rick, who feeds you this stuff, that you are so eager to believe?
Here is the trend in minimum extent:
Here is the trend in minimum volume:
Here are the most recent figures we have for volume so far this year:
The people most concerned about Arctic sea ice loss are not the "warmers" you sneer against. They are the Arctic scientists who watch this stuff every day, and produce all of the data that you cherry pick and misread.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 29, 2013 - 04:13pm PT
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Forgive me Chiloe for having absolutely zero faith in any cherry picked data you or your compatriots you care to post. Your side has been repeatedly caught twisting data to interpretations that have no basis in reality if not into outright lies. I saw you with your ice core a while back. You have a vested interest in endless climate change studies since your in that industry. The Antarctic ice mass is increasing, there is no doubt about that, and at the end of the melt season Arctic sea ice will be seen to have recovered substantially from recent lows.There has been many times in recorded history that arctic sea ice extent was lower than 2012-a historical fact you guys choose to ignore. Recuse yourself buddy and quietly look for another line of work before you go down with the rat infested ship.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jun 29, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
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Forgive me Chiloe for having absolutely zero faith in any cherry picked data you or your compatriots you care to post
OK, you don't know what "cherry picked" means, and don't believe that nonsense from actual scientists unless it fits your politics. My question is, who do you believe? Who feeds you these talking points, that you're so eager to believe and repeat here -- no matter how false or stupid?
I saw you with your ice core a while back. You have a vested interest in endless climate change studies since your in that industry.
I guess now you're trying to think for yourself, but WTF are you talking about? What do you think you saw me with, and what do you imagine you can deduce from that?
The Antarctic ice mass is increasing, there is no doubt about that,
Really, there is no doubt about that? Who feeds you this stuff???
and at the end of the melt season Arctic sea ice will be seen to have recovered substantially from recent lows.
My own guess is that it will be low although not a new record. But we'll see. It's been a cold stormy summer so far, not much top-melting, but even so the ice is broken up and thin, with little multiyear ice remaining, and the 3rd-lowest volume for this date. How extent ends up in September depends heavily on the weather now.
There has been many times in recorded history that arctic sea ice extent was lower than 2012-a historical fact you guys choose to ignore.
Exactly when in recorded history did this historical fact happen? How do you know? Which guys are ignoring it? Who feeds you this stuff?
Recuse yourself buddy and quietly look for another line of work before you go down with the rat infested ship.
You've built yourself an imagined reality and are confusing it with real people.
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mountainlion
Trad climber
California
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Jun 29, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
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Ron my grandfather was a bio-agriculture teacher in addition to farming and could walk a forest (midwest forest) and tell you what each tree species was...he had a wood shop where he taught me woodworking and we found a burr oak tree that I used to build a roll top desk for my senior project in high school...always have loved the forest and nature...
I saw pictures of Idyllwild around Tahquitz from 100 years ago and it is amazing how few trees there were in comparison to today!! I have read lots about the bark beetle and the amount of water each tree needs to produce enough sap to fend off predators like the bark beetle...fires are necessary as are people willing to clear forests...the problem lies with cutting old growth trees wich are so large that people actually LOVE them...
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 29, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
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I don't watch reality tv, but I get the gist of it. People are on the shows because they will look stupid and create drama. And laughs too.
This thread fits the bill. I enjoy laughing at Rick, Ron, and that f*#king blowhard The Chief, it's good entertainment.
Thanks for the laughs fellas, they're all at your expense, and you think you're the stars.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Jun 29, 2013 - 10:54pm PT
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What's pretty funny is that same article says that the last decade in Barrow saw 3.1 degrees of warming with the trend continuing. Farther north records for warming are being set! That sounds f*#ked up because it is. It's called Arctic Vortex collapse ( not mentioned in the article but they do mention the Arctic warming ) and is being pushed by the warming of Icecap. The lowdown is that Rick can't be more wrong about what is happening.
http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/future/warm_arctic_cold_continent.html
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:15am PT
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By a million Londoners daily Ed. Sort of like the English equivalent of The National Enquirer-where all the real news first appears.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Jun 30, 2013 - 03:32am PT
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CE, I don't see any of those policy proposals, intended to diminish humanity's massive addition of CO2 to the atmosphere, anywhere on that list of scams on your link . . . But to err is human.
As far as large-scale scams go, you might consider studying up on economic externalities; you could start by watching this film:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Corporation_(film)
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