Elon Musk

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WBraun

climber

Oct 9, 2018 - 05:46pm PT

Elon doesn't know marketing.

He should make the "Volkswagen" of electric cars that is very affordable to the masses.

Stripped down version with no st00pid bells and whistles.

Mass produced at $15K.

America will go ape sh!t and buy ........

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Oct 9, 2018 - 06:31pm PT

We had a foot and a half of snow here Oct 1. There will be a few other things your friend of a friend will learn, but basically, the car heats itself and is warm, ready to go to work at -10C outside/21C inside here at 7am each morning. I selected 'learn my schedule'. I park outside so lots of snow and ice on the Tesla. It all slides off by the time the car heats up. Only a pane of glass on the roof.

Today I got a new update. Like getting an entirely new phone, not just a phone update. I can see all the cars all the way around me on the dashboard, 4 lanes wide. The cameras now are used for dashcams, Atari games showed up on the centre touchscreen. Many other things that I haven't had time to look at yet. Lanes and autopilot have had a huge upgrade.

I don't feel abandoned - or like my car is outdated a year later, it is fresh and fun and new today again!. But I do feel like there is no way I would buy any other car again unless the other companies really up their game and surpass the little crappy American car company on government cheese with a stupid CEO who doesn't know how to run a real car company and using dumb ideas like batteries that will never work... shouldn't be hard to make a better product than they do eh?

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Oct 12, 2018 - 09:28am PT

When your Tesla has this kind of mileage then you can tell me how bad the other car companies are.

Those are two of my trucks. I've owned them since new.

The Chevy truck spend the first six years of its life being overloaded & worked hard. It cost me $18,183.00 out the door. Over 260,000 mile & the drive train in all original.

The GMC was $32,742.00 OTD. It's been 200 miles north of the Arctic circle.

I think I've gotten my monies worth.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Oct 12, 2018 - 10:57am PT

Similar story; I have an F 250 with 180,000 hard miles on it (ran me $17.5K), but now I have over 60 square meters of solar panels at my ranch, so when they make an electric SUV,....

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Oct 12, 2018 - 07:25pm PT

Check out the Bollenger B2 truck, B1 trucks.

And https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/7/16/tesloops-tesla-model-s-surpasses-400000-miles-643737-kilometers

So back in July the Model S Tesla hit 400,000mi, 650,000km. You can see their entire service record and costs, .05 a mile vs their other cars,Lincoln town car and mercedes GLS at .25 a mile.

No reason a million miles on a vehicle won't become the new 240,000miles with electric vehicles.
https://electrek.co/2018/10/11/tesla-semi-clear-path-goal-1-million-mile-electric-powertrain/

Bollenger is also asking to use Tesla's charging network, which would be fine but most users (and the creators of the truck) are ranchers, so it will just be used for work, and will replace a generator for power use.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 12, 2018 - 09:44pm PT

How far will it go in Lo 4WD?

I bet not 1/4 as far as a Series II 52 HP Land Rover.
And that 1/4 is probably being generous.

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Oct 13, 2018 - 05:49am PT

They are planning a 200 kWh battery. So with wind resistance in 4lo being 0, it should have a 600mi range on the flat street. What is the Land Rovers range? 100l gas tank at 22.5 l/100km is about a 250 mile range. It’s top speed was 67mph and 0-60 in almost 30 seconds. If you limit the electric motor to that performance you’ll be doing what is called hypermilling and double the range! No electric cars have a limit if under 120mph and accelerate slower than 7 seconds 0-60. Add ups and decrease range , downs, and regen range and it’s range will be a lot more than you need. The point is to have more power in the battery available to run tools around the ranch etc. Debbie downer is correct, you do loose power from a battery as waste, just while the car sits there. Mine has about .5% vampire drain per day. Or 182.50kW per year. at 8 cents per kW it costs me $14.60 CAD or $10.95 USD per year in wasted electricity. If that is a financial strain for you, even bus passes are out of your price range. It saves me $1000/mo in pump charges so I don’t mind.

And Jim, look up requirements for air bags. Off road rock crawling , I want them turned off. Driving around a toolbox/generator around the ranch, off. Over 7000 lbs, not required, or used in many busses or tractors etc.

Some guys still don't get how electric powertrains work. Betting that it gets a quarter of the range of an internal combustion engine shows that. While I finished climbing all the 14ers in CO this summer we went jeeping again. Crawled most trails and passes in the state, my buddy there is a fanatic. Once they make electric drivetrains for these things the game will change. My Model X crawls better than my 4Runner off road edition did in 4low and it's not even remotely designed to compete in that arena.

All the torque at any wheel speed, super low centre of gravity centred between the axles,
independent wheel drive control, no locking diffs needed since each wheel is driven independently by a motor.

Have you seen what the first generation Nikola UTV has done in terms of performance? Rock crawling and off roading, towing farm equipment... Anyone care to compare to other UTV's in it's class?

https://nikolamotor.com/nzt

100% waterproof. Doesn't need air to operate. Can drive deeper or even float across streams like a Tesla. No need for a snorkel air intake.

100% of torque available at any speed. No gears needed.

Lowest and best-placed centre of gravity.

Quickest acceleration.

3 hrs to charge(8 hrs with an EV ARC solar setup)

590 HP

722 ftlbs torque

3.5s 0-60

150-200 miles range

14.5" ground clearance

33" wheels with 20" travel

Hitch is rated to 3000lbs. Motors have no limit.

1400lbs payload and silent operation (besides suspension linkage and tire noise) and low thermal heat signature.

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Oct 13, 2018 - 09:38am PT

This one has a range over 600 miles can recharge its tanks in 5 min. & has a 4200lb. payload. Oh, it can go well over 100 mph & it's my slowest truck.

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Oct 13, 2018 - 10:02am PT

But can you operate it in your garage without dying or outside without polluting? How about a few hundred million of them? I lived in LA. You can’t tell me that it’s better for your health in any way!

There is no selling point or advantage to gas now and once the econnomics are there for BEVs there will be few who choose an ICE over a BEV. Economics are on track with at least five more years before pickups get much for options except for the B1-2.

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Oct 13, 2018 - 11:15am PT

Dude, you are drunk on kool-aid.

The production of an electric car at this point is very pollution intense. & the scrapping of these vehicles is worse.

I'm not saying that the gas driven cars are great or even good. I'm SAYING electric cars aren't there yet.

And until we decide to deal with them from top to bottom they never will be.

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Oct 13, 2018 - 12:05pm PT

Dude. Compare scrapping one as you say after it’s lifetime vs another. Compare the cost of operation in environmental and financial costs and production costs over the lifetime. Big picture and you don’t get it. I don’t blame you, you are armchair driving where we actually drive electric cars. But the info is out there if you want to look.

If BEV manufacturing cost in pollution is twice what ICE cost is, and you get four times the miles out of it, what is the big picture cost?

The grid can only get more clean. Solar can only get more efficient.

Oil exploration and extraction has stayed within 10% of environmental impact for 30 plus years here in the oil fields. Burning hydrocarbons hasn’t changed at all. Catalytic converters still come from the worst polluting factories ever.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 13, 2018 - 12:19pm PT

I really don’t think the true environmental production and re-cycling costs have been accurately or honestly calculated given those highly toxic batteries.

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Oct 13, 2018 - 12:51pm PT

Good thing what you think and especially what you really think have no bearing on the reality of the situation at all then eh?
A few posts ago you didn’t even know the chemistry of what goes into the battery and thought that Colbalt would be used at GF1 with the 2170 cells etc.

Ignore the fact that gasoline is known to the state of California to cause birth defects and cancer and you sit there and stew in the vapours as you fill your tank. Keep calling the sealed batteries highly toxic as if you are trading to their use from organic vegetables or something!

Horrible Toxic Hillary, she enabled her husband to grab women by the pussy. (Meanwhile you are using a president who grabs women by the pussy). But your argument is implying that you are using something that is all butterflies and flowers. Very poorly thought out way to conduct your decision making.

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Oct 13, 2018 - 03:09pm PT

Dude I hate Trump with a passion.

I was pissed when GM stop the EV1 project. It was a pretty good first generation, a great place to start from. I have worked on Honda Insights, I like new tech.

I know the salvage business.

"New boss same as the old boss".

You show me how they are going to produce & salvage 15 - 19 million of these a year just in the U.S. & I'll change my mind. Show me all the wrecking yards that are set up to deal with the dismantling of these units, smashed up or not.

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Oct 13, 2018 - 05:42pm PT

Which comes first,the chicken or the egg?

What would come first, the wrecking yards and blue collar guys making $10/hr working at them - (doing what now, exactly? How can they afford to sit around and wait) or the gigafactories that Tesla is currently building to make the product that the wrecking yard will eventually make a living off of?

if I were an economics student, I would look at the fact that since Teslas are in one crash for every 3+ billion miles driven, vs half a billion miles driven for all other cars. I would look at the fact that electric drivetrains are lasting much longer than combustable drivetrains (an average of double so far, goal for quadruple). I would look at the fact that battery vehicles combust a seventh as often as internal combustion engine cars. I would look at the fact that only 2% of cars made this year are electric.

Then I would realize that the wrecking yard of the future will be a much smaller industry than today, and not to start investing too much too soon.

Just as it takes 100kWh of gasoline to drive a car 70km and the same amount of energy in a battery to drive my MX 475km, we aren't comparing apples to apples.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352152X17300968

I don't plan to dump my battery anywhere once it is no longer useful in my X. I'll use it at my house to store power from my solar panels during the day to be used by my freezer/laptop at night.

Others are buying up packs to use in municipal power storage, like peaker plants.

Others are recycling them, in select areas, mostly subsidized for research.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/10/08/reusing-ev-batteries-household-storage-australian-company-relectrify/

Apples to oranges. You don't keep your broken down engine from the car to store power in your home. You wouldn't even think of it. It is too loud for indoor use, to polluting, to power hungry and inefficient. Which is exactly why so many people have such a hard time envisioning a change in this arena. It doesn't fit their current paradigm.

couchmaster

climber

Oct 13, 2018 - 07:10pm PT

Frumy, the evidence points to the fact that electric cars will be better in almost all ways. You are correct in what you said, they aren't "there" yet, but they are heading that way, and the world will be better when they are. Tesla is an overpriced stock. Big deal. As an aside, the man himself (Elon) tucked well over $10 million bucks inside his "Hip National Bank" for @ 8 months by collecting the $$$cratch and then delaying the flamethrowers shipment until September- Oct. : product is shipping.

Brilliance.

MikeL

Social climber

Southern Arizona

Oct 14, 2018 - 08:49am PT

Looking at the only at the carbon footprint of the operations of different technologies presents only a partial analysis.

How electricity in a particular country is produced is an issue that needs consideration, as there are carbon-production issues there that are considerable.

Manufacturing a technology also has carbon production-issues, as does salvage at the end of life (as Frumy points out).

Last is the notion that people need new vehicles—and individual ones. Carbon production would probably be the lowest if people weren’t so oriented to increasing materialism; people could live with their older vehicle instead of buying a new ones, and they could fund and use public transportation systems more.

This situation reminds me of the carbon footprint impact of Fuji bottling and selling water and then shipping it all over the globe. What’s really being sold is the feeling of liberal or progressive righteousness.

I wonder if anyone has ever figured out the carbon footprint of ego attachment.