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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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May 14, 2008 - 12:23am PT
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Yes, I know but what I was trying to say was that these other routes, Slider Banger, Shipoopi and probably some others I don't know the name of aren't so close to BY as to be distracting, at least they weren't when I was up there.
I think the climbing community in Tuolumne has given the Bachar-Yerian some breathing room out of respect. I think that happens in other arreas as well.
jr
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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May 14, 2008 - 12:25am PT
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John,
you should melt those bolts into a belt buckle and wear it around town. Good conversation piece..........lol.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 14, 2008 - 12:27am PT
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This thread is getting to be like a half cocked David Lynch film!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2008 - 12:28am PT
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Wouldn't forging them into a new chisel be more poetic?
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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May 14, 2008 - 12:29am PT
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Joe wrote;Bob, the problem for me bridging this gap is the fact that guys like you think all sport climbing and sport climbs are a positive for the sport with no downsides. In fact, I'd say it's your virtual 'Musicman' approach to the promotion of climbing while simultaneously being unwilling or unable to acknowledge any downsides at all to bolting that makes compromise all but impossible for me personally.
Joe...trad climbing and sport climbing have issues and if you were not so blinded by your gloom and doom outlook you might open those three quarter close eyes and realize that I had taken a pro-active approach to the situations rather than negative.
Can you understand something so simple or do I have to post again about what have done with land managers in both sport and trad climbing areas.
There are down sides to bolting just like there is downsides to trad climbing and overuse of resources. I rather take pro-active approach rather than whine like six year old who got his toy stolen like you do. You also remind me of the kid who wants to take his bat or ball away when the game is not going his way.
Mommy, mommy...the boys aren't playing like I want them too...
For god sakes sucks it up and be a man.
I just attended a reunion in the Gunks in October and was honored to be the keynote speaker at the main event speaking to over four generations of Gunks climbers on the uniqueness of the Gunks and the friendships that I have from those years.
So really...f*#k off with your trad vs sport sh#t and go out do something other than bitch like Mimi on the internet.
Understand???
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 14, 2008 - 12:30am PT
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Yep, nothing to see but choss, and you're just a short drive from [url="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=smith+rocks,+or&sll=44.35126,-121.17782&sspn=0.684444,1.639709&ie=UTF8&z=10&iwloc=A" target="new"]real climbing[/url]...
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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May 14, 2008 - 12:33am PT
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Mimi, Bob. That's some serious foreplay!
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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May 14, 2008 - 12:34am PT
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Ron,
it would be but carrying around a chisel in one's pocket wears out the trouser material and it falls out........Could make it into a medallion but then , oh the weight on the neck. Could create problems only a chiroprator could fix.
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Dogtown Climber
Trad climber
The Idyllwild City dump
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May 14, 2008 - 12:38am PT
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Bob; Your taking a lot of sh-t here.You know ground up routes are Just in better style.You have done them. Don't you feel better about them. Than the rap jobs?
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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May 14, 2008 - 12:42am PT
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dog wrote:Bob; Your taking a lot of sh-t here.You know ground up routes are Just in better style.You have done them. Don't you feel better about them. Than the rap jobs?
It is sh#t and that is how I look at it cause people like Mimi are only capable of spewing sh#t. There is very little to her...no kids, not married, climbing means everything to her, boyfriend is a climber and she spends a lot of time belaying...it all she has left to cling on too.
My best routes are the ones that people climb...sport or trad. Pretty f*#king simple.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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May 14, 2008 - 12:42am PT
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There is a place... for everything....
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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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May 14, 2008 - 12:43am PT
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bldjac - I would melt them down, but I'm going to use them again on another ascent.
Afterall, they cost $8 each and they aren't made anymore and they are still in good condition. The guy who chopped them wouldn't even give them all back to me- he wanted to keep one for a souvenir (I think).
Guess how they were chopped? (he was going down)
Guess how they were placed? (somebody was going up)...
hmmm.....
Side by side we move along.... jb
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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May 14, 2008 - 12:44am PT
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I've reread your inital post, Ron.......it was necessary!
And I rather like the idea that trad climbing is the more noble of all the styles we have in the platelet before us. However, nobility does suggest higher moral character and also by definition nobility displays higher moral character by displaying benevolence,
I think (in climbing terms) that means that in certain situations and circumstances the creation of sport routes is OK provided it doesn't interfer adversely to the overall progress and development of rock climbing in general. There is room for both. Just where and how changes as time marches on.
Jack
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 14, 2008 - 12:44am PT
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Bob, I have no doubt whatsoever you are a real pillar of climbing society - and given you seem intent on imparting how important that is to you I'm certainly willing to take that at face value. But if you are attempting to leverage that 'prestige' to somehow claim that trad and sport have equal impact - particularly on the demographics, then I'd say that's some pretty futile hurling you've got going on.
And proactive? I suppose so if you consider attempting to manage the crowds you are both generating and promoting to be 'proactive' - I consider it merely self-fulfilling.
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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May 14, 2008 - 12:45am PT
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hn,
I really like that idea. I don't know why it hadn't occured to me!
Jack
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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May 14, 2008 - 12:49am PT
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Joe wrote:And proactive? I suppose so if you consider attempting to manage the crowds you are both generating and promoting to 'proactive' - I consider it merely self-fulfilling.
You been off the mark so far...no different with your above post.
Joe wrote:leverage that 'prestige' to somehow claim that trad and sport have equal impact
You continue...like you always do and take what someone has written and turn it into something you want it to be. I said they had issues...can't you read???
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Dogtown Climber
Trad climber
The Idyllwild City dump
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May 14, 2008 - 01:10am PT
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Bob;
I'll buy that. I don't care if anyone climbs my stuff or not.The only one thier important to is me.And thats only when I'm working them, after that who cares. But I'm a selfish ass.That being siad I would be a bit pissed if someone chopped it,or added to it.
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yo
climber
I drink your milkshake!!!
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May 14, 2008 - 01:27am PT
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560!
Suck it!
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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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May 14, 2008 - 01:39am PT
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I've pondered these arguments many times.
I still want to get a feeling as to why "Gritstone Ethics" and "Saxony Ethics" are still strong.
Do they have some underlying respect for the first established climbs in their area that makes them adhere to a certain "style" of "ascent" in their particular areas?
Weird question, sorry but I'm still trying to figure this stuff out myself.
Honestly asking, jb
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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May 14, 2008 - 02:08am PT
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Jhedge wrote:In fact, I'd say it's your virtual "Raving Lunatic" approach, together with concepts like applied logic and common sense which are antithetical to your argument, and a fixation on bolts which borders on clinically-diagnosable mania, which discredits whatever point you have unsuccessfully tried to make in your tens of thousands of near-identical posts.
Joe is broken record that keep spinning around with no end in sight,,,he on a daily basis continues to blame sport climbing with every ill related to climbing and sport climbers as something below roaches.
Joe... wonder how your republican party got where is is now...look in the mirror!
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