Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 08:19am PT
|
Can't trust that the image(s) have not been tampered with.
Those images come from:
http://contrailscience.com/
It is a serious disinfo website.
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 09:43am PT
|
ah, the occupations of the idle. ed, i'm starting to understand why it's taking so long for that thing to ignite. (ducking)
checking some of this a little, surprisingly no reference in either the ventura or santa barbara newspapers. whatever the event was, there would have been an instant local angle, either confirming or denying it. did graniteclimber threaten to out more wives?
then i notice the CBS station hunts up old robert ellsworth, who doesn't seem to think it's an airplane either. he assures them it isn't a tomahawk missile, which was probably the only thing they showed him when he was assistant secretary of defense 40 years ago. interesting that in all of southern california they couldn't get anyone a little less creaky to go on camera.
ellsworth conjectured that it was done by our people to show china how tough we are during some kind of obama visit. i love it when a president visits los angeles, always a joyous event marked by complete gridlock from LAX to beverly hills. the visit may be a move to affect their GNP so our manufactured goods can begin to compete.
it takes true grit to venture out 30 miles, far into international waters. next marines will be paddling their surfboards a little too far out from san onofre, dissing al quaeda out loud, braving raghead sharks.
one item in favor of the missile argument. i don't know what you aero geniuses call it, but i would call it a thrust bend. a contrail's gonna be straight. there's a dogleg in the track here, and it's not coming from a crosswind, it's coming because the little gremlin who pilots the missile decided to readjust the thrust slightly shortly after the launch. this looks pretty obvious.
reference the first pic here from yet another blogxpert:
http://spacefellowship.com/news/art23876/it-s-a-bird-it-s-a-missile-it-s-an-airplane-.html
------------
hey, this moaf is up to nearly 600 in a week. what's the speed record?
my german isn't the greatest, but:
Gib auf, du hast keine chance, Klimmer! Lass es uns beenden! Es ist einfacher fur dich, viel einfacher. Du wirst sehen, es ist gleich vorbei.
"give up, you don't have a chance, klimmer! let's end it! it's simple for you, very simple. you will see, it's all over."
doesn't sound like much of a threat to me. klimmer, does your wife work?
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 10:28am PT
|
tony, it's not as difficult as it looks... the math upstairs ^
(which still might need some correction)
klimmer has reverted to making this a question of belief, and is not confronting the limitations of his understanding, which is a sad thing for a science teacher
|
|
monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 10:34am PT
|
That's exactly right Werner, when Klimmer says it was going WNW, we can refute his assertion and show proof positive that is not the case, and that the 'missile' is going more or less in the opposite direction.
Since Klimmer is smart enough to know his only recourse is 'the pics are fake', there's nothing to do except note the obvious.
The LAX webcam shows the object 'rising' and going to the 'left', as represented by the 3D segment in the diagram below. This shows the 'missile' can't possibly be going WNW.
If you don't agree Klimmer, show us your trig. It's so simple right?
But of course you will just nitpic, then throw it all out as 'untrustable'.
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 10:58am PT
|
i know all about sines, cosines and tangents, ed. i also know about cotangents, secants and cosecants. i'm so smart i know about coelacanths and their wives, co-coelacanths. but what nobody learns unless they get into an engineering program somewhere is what these suckers are used for off the page of a high school geometry book.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 11:01am PT
|
or perhaps, tony, in trying to understand the world around us... everyday...
can you imagine living without the ability to read, it's possible, but we'd miss much.
Understanding the limits of what you can know from observation is the most important thing you can learn in terms of doing an experiment or making an observation. Once you are convinced that you can actually make that measurement, then you can go on to trying to understand what it is telling you. But if you find you have poor information, you wouldn't expect to learn much from it in terms of understanding.
klimmer seems to fight shouting the creed "seeing is believing!" but he actually doesn't understand what he is seeing... in my opinion based on my calculational estimates.
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 11:05am PT
|
by the way, the second photo in that blogxpert link i gave purports to show the contrail in a pic from a stationary satellite. pretty damn good photo for stuff that's disappearing in the sunset.
ed, you havta understand that people going through the catholic school system have three career choices if they're looking beyond an undergraduate degree: doctor, lawyer, or priest. if you want to study science, you study biology. biology was way too messy for me.
|
|
MisterAnswers
Social climber
Ark on the Moon
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 12:41pm PT
|
Question: Who is winning on this thread?
Answer: Klimmer! He has demonstrated over and over again that he has at best a weak understanding of the scientific method, only knows middle school mathematics and has a poor grasp of logic. Further, he has shown himself to be intellectually dishonest. Posters who disagree are labeled "dishonest debunkers". Michio Kaku, formerly used by Klimmer as an example of a smart, open minded scientist, overnight becomes a government paid stooge when he disagrees with the Klimmer missile obsession. An excellent site with many interesting photos and analysis is dismissed as disinformation simply because the facts there are not consistent with the Klimmer delusions. So, klimmer is a idiot! There is no question about that. Furthermore, there is no fact or argument that will ever change his mind. Everything will be dismissed as disinformation.
Yet, he has admirably achieved his real goal of engaging real scientists! Ed H. and Mike B. and other well known scientists are responding directly to his idiot posts and apparently taking him seriously. So, he wins! Fortunately, this does not mean everyone else loses. Everyone is fulfilling some need through participating.
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
|
ah, mister answers, another klimmer-specific harrasser who doesn't know the difference between a friend and a piton. klim, they do spend a lot of money on you.
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 01:13pm PT
|
You guys are laugh out loud funny.
I've shown you how easy it is.
You drank the cool-aid without checking it out first, and have done all kinds of disinfo and misguidance to prove nothing. And then went on the ad hominem attack raging lunatic mode. Yes, that is dishonest. Very dishonest.
I've checked it. I was ready to eat my words. And to apologize and to admit I was wrong, but I'm not. I know I don't have too. It's gonna be very embarrassing for many of you.
I even went ahead and made even more stereograms from the images in the helicopter flight line that are even further apart to really make the paralax depth of field extreme, and it shows the exhaust/vapor plume easily going upward to the W - WNW just as I said it was going. It won't lie. It won't turn the image inside out. Stereograms will not turn the Grand Canyon into a Mountain.
Retired General Tom Micinerney agrees, "It was a missile."
Even PhD Kaku says it looks like it is going upward and toward the NW in the FOX video first and clearly admits this, then he jumps on the "optical illusion" bandwagon. He was pretty smart to say what it looks like first, so that when it is overwhelmingly proven to be doing what it actually looks like it is doing, he can save face and say, "Well, it looked like that from the beginning and I should have stuck with that first impression." He has given himself an out. You guys have not. Hey, I already said I like PhD Kaku, but sometimes even PhDs can go wrong, very wrong. But he gave himself an out.
Stereograms don't lie, they just enhance the truth that the depth of field already shows.
Then looking at all the GOES images, there it is in full glory and climbing and building toward the W - WNW, clear as can be, right where I said it should be. The exhaust/vapor plume even shows the guidance correction trail in the exhaust/vapor plume from the vertical view and the helicopter shots show it from the oblique.
It was that simple.
And the trig was simple too. Yes, the tip-top end of the exhaust/vapor plume goes over 156,000+ feet.
Twas a missile.
Edit:
Good, well done and simple photogrammetry can prove the real truth of many things. This whole missile off of L.A. vs. jet contrail phenomenon has been the perfect example to illustrate this, and it shows how easy it really is when done honestly. I went down the wrong track for a moment, no thanks to Mono, turned around with good imagery and got onto proving it.
That's how it works.
Now with the original video shot by KCAL, and the very clear original GOES images in high resolution, it would be even easier. It would be great to get all of that, and do the same process again just for better resolution and higher quality images. But it will not change the truth of what is already known.
It was a missile.
|
|
nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 01:15pm PT
|
Yet, he has admirably achieved his real goal of engaging real scientists! Ed H. and Mike B. and other well known scientists are responding directly to his idiot posts and apparently taking him seriously. So, he wins! Fortunately, this does not mean everyone else loses. Everyone is fulfilling some need through participating.
It's epic.
A Troll of ginormous proportions
It's almost....... uh.... dare I say.... a Ragmeat troll.
|
|
bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 01:26pm PT
|
um, i felch dead people.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 01:28pm PT
|
Threads about fantasy, faith and fuking definitely get the most posts.
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 01:45pm PT
|
Prep period.
|
|
monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
|
If the trig was simple, and we are out of our league Klimmer, then surely you can show us your trig based on the stationary views.
|
|
Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 02:14pm PT
|
|
|
monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 02:15pm PT
|
Nice!
|
|
Gene
Social climber
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 02:15pm PT
|
Love it, Zander!!!
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2010 - 02:16pm PT
|
Zander solved it.
It's all over now.
You can all go home now.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!