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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 29, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
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some get spiritual because they see the light,
others because they feel the heat,
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Aug 29, 2016 - 05:07pm PT
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Here's something I read today that makes sense to me anyway.
Simone Weil, whose religious philosophy weaves Plato with the New Testament and shows a scrupulous concern with the material world, writes in Gravity and Grace,
“The mind is not forced to believe in the existence of anything…the only organ of contact with existence is acceptance, love. That is why beauty and reality are identical. That is why joy and the sense of reality are identical.”
If God is the ultimate transitional object, occupying an intermediate space between our subjective experience and external, measurable reality, so be it. God is both transitional object and provider of the re-enchanting holding environment we all still need
To live is to be in transit, moving as we do between fleeting people and moments. One option is to let the Great Big, Very Real Disappearing Act make us seek escape in the deadening pendulum swing from private anxious fantasies to external distractions.
Another option is to trust that with repeated exposure, the signs and wonders of religion—undeniably tarnished by abuse and neglect—can become less rote, more real. And with its increasing vividness, the imagined world that takes shape inside our brains can draw us more fully out into the world of hurting, in-transit humans, who need as much real presence and attentive holding as we can pass along.
http://religiondispatches.org/the-meaning-of-make-believe-why-religion-doesnt-have-to-be-real/?utm_source=Religion+Dispatches+Newsletter&utm_campaign=046ffb4729-RD_Weekly_Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_742d86f519-046ffb4729-84561257
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Aug 29, 2016 - 05:08pm PT
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Yea I'd say that people form beliefs about why people get spiritual. But if you can't convince yourself to believe your own beliefs are true, however wacky or wrong they are, then you're a defective human. What we see in human belief creation processes today is the result of survivor bias, not the omniscient omnipotence of human thinking. IMHO :-)
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Aug 29, 2016 - 05:29pm PT
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There's only one thing I know
For sure.
Is that I don't know anything
For sure.
I'm not quite certain of that.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Aug 29, 2016 - 07:38pm PT
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I thought I knew a few things before I started on these God Mind Religion Science threads. Now I realize I know less and less but so does everyone else if they're honest. And so the quest continues.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Aug 29, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
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Tonight let's combine 1 part science with 20 parts fiction. Hand me the remote.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Aug 29, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
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Nicely said. To be honest, I dont think that our evolutionary ancestors' environment favored them being honest with themselves. As we gain more information, I think that tips the balance of advantage more towards more honesty with ourselves and our beliefs, but we fight against our own inherited 'lack of wings' to believe it.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Aug 29, 2016 - 08:45pm PT
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My wife has an inherited form of catholicism that has somehow conditioned her to practice going about living her life unfettered by formal religious rituals. She believes in God just in case and never dwells on the particulars or talks about the details of her beliefs.
I on the other hand am an extreme spiritual cynic, rebellious and conflicted about any belief system outside of science, but am also extremely septical of the long term ecological effects of corporate, industrial, and military applications of such science.
We don't agree on a lot, but combined, we somehow make up for each other's weaknesses and at the same time we tolerate each other's particular variety of irrational philosophy.
To have faith in something is also not exclusively a human experience by my estimation.
I don't believe its anthropomorphizing to say that dogs not only understand much of our basic language, but in some instances, I think they have faith in us and believe that we look out for their welfare and best interest.
It's a stretch, but I've seen stranger things.
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omclimber
Mountain climber
Soquel
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Aug 30, 2016 - 08:00am PT
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CorporateDogReligion may well have sprung from a sincere proto-human desire for explanation of an amazing world - but a few thousand years of dubious human interference has given us a factuous, divisive, profiteering perversion that enslaves more than enlightens.
Whoa. Quite truly the most profound, succinct and, in my opinion, accurate assessment.
Fine print: have not and likely will not read the other posts - this one just caught my eye and will be rolling around in my noggin today. Struck a cord.
Nice.
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Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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Aug 30, 2016 - 10:41am PT
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The " Why?" is not easily answered, but in my mind religious beliefs are very personal to all of us, and we each find a way to accommodate a belief system as the core of what guides us and our behavior. Quite frankly, I have an easier time subscribing to an actual belief system, complete with norms and guiding principles than actually answering the ultimate question you pose "Does God exist?" I don't know.
But I was raised Catholic and ascribe most of my moral beliefs to that upbringing. It gives me peace to go to mass, especially with my wife and kids. I take comfort in knowing I am trying to instill in them a sense of belonging, not just to the church, but to humanity in general. And I always tell my kids they will eventually make up their mind whether it is for them or not. But I have no doubt my life long dedication to contributing to my community, especially fighting for justice and equality, is grounded in my religious beliefs.
What I don't agree with, or appreciate, is proselytizing, in any form. I'm especially turned off by religious sects that hound you and try to convince you that you are not a GOOD person if you don't subscribe to their beliefs. I turn them away before they speak a word.
By the same token, I don't appreciate people that claim to be atheists and take issue with my beliefs. You should ask yourselves why the majority of the world's population DO hold some kind of belief (religious) system, and only a small minority do not. (BTW, most do not because they are not curious enough to ponder the question, which I find morally and intellectually repugnant).
So, in sum, do you not think that the way you phrased the question here is intolerably arrogant? You should have asked "Why do so many people NOT believe in God? Your phrasing of the question implies a denigration of those that believe, and a superiority that those that acknowledge a lack of proof of the existence of God are smarter than the rest of us.
(God my wife would be proud to read this.)
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Aug 30, 2016 - 11:18am PT
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From the article:
Children from religious families were less likely to share with others than were children from non-religious families. A religious upbringing also was associated with more punitive tendencies in response to anti-social behavior.
The results were at odds with the perceptions of religious parents, who were more likely than non-religious parents to report that their children had a high degree of empathy and sensitivity to the plight of others.
https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2015/11/05/religious-upbringing-associated-less-altruism-study-finds
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 30, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
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i believe that the benifits of spirituality far outweigh any egotistical hangups i have about it, if i can just remove my bias and prejudice,
science? has science proven that there is no great spirit? if anything, it's the opposite,
explain gravity and magnetism. we haven't yet. two basic forces of the unniverse.
if you could see or hear the great spirit, then he wouldn't be that great, would he?
you start with a little faith, don't take much, if that works out, then you have knowledge,
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 30, 2016 - 04:14pm PT
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You should ask yourselves why the majority of the world's population DO hold some kind of belief (religious) system, and only a small minority do not. (BTW, most do not because they are not curious enough to ponder the question, which I find morally and intellectually repugnant).
Gorgeous George, no doubt you are bound for heaven!
and damn those atheists!!
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 30, 2016 - 04:52pm PT
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Atheists are stoopid.
Without God they can't even be atheist ......
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Aug 30, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
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People are stoopid,
Without stoopidity, there wouldn't be as many stoopid people.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Aug 30, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
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without dog they could not be dog-ist either, nawmean?
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Aug 30, 2016 - 07:01pm PT
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You are stupid if you're not asking why after how is partially explained.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 30, 2016 - 11:57pm PT
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as long as you know that you know, then you will never know.
but as soon as you begin to know that you don't know,
then you will know.
that sounds crazy?
i know.
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