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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Aug 25, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
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The reason given by the devout to the less than devout is, among others, always,
John3:16
Hey! Goyle!
I need ta kno?
How'd it go?
Rock on!
Ainta5.14!
I laugh - still ~ brwahahh !
Good to you to!
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John M
climber
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Aug 25, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
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Sorry Craig. there is no permeant hell. If you eat too much, you get fat. That is hell.
So John, are you saying you are not a Christian?
Because reincarnation is Not a Christina principle.
Craig, I will answer this more fully. I fully believe that I am a Christian. But more then a few modern Christians have called me a heretic for my beliefs and I do not identify with many modern Christian beliefs.
I do not accept that the bible is the inerrant world of God. I believe parts of it are the inspired word of God, but that is different then inerrant. That alone gets me tossed out of most current Christian churches.
I believe in reincarnation, which I believe was a part of early Christianity.
I believe that we are all called to put on the full mind of Christ, and thus all can become the Christ. And that there have been many Christs on this planet. Jesus and Buddha to name two. When Jesus said that he was the only son of God, he was speaking figuratively, not literally. A lot of the bible is figurative.
And when Jesus speaks about the way.. he is talking about putting on the Christ mind and doing away with the carnal mind. So anyone who puts on the full mind of Christ is/knows the Way and has thus become The Christ. The Way is the way to life eternal. Life eternal is not in this physical body, but does have a spiritual body.
I do no accept that there is an eternal hell or that God condemns us to it. I believe some verses in revelations have been changed to reflect an eternal hell. I do believe that there is a death of the soul, called the second death, where a soul meets its end if it has not followed The Way. Fallen angels such as Lucifer have been taken to the second death. But it is not eternal hell. It is the dissolving of that being to the point where that identity no longer exists. There is no reason for God to torment a part of His/Her creation in hell for eternity. At the same time, evil and those identified with it will not be allowed to exist forever. So they are sent to the second death.
Cheers Craig, I can see by your Jebus statement that you are not serious about understanding my beliefs, so cheerio..
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Aug 25, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
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John M,
I am interested in your a*#ertion that early Christianity accepted reincarnation. What is the basis for that? John the Baptist and Elijah?
Other than Jesus, I am not sure there is a reincarnation tradition.
Just curious.
Edit
Funny how ST turns a normal word into an expletive ;-)
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 25, 2016 - 06:16pm PT
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Fascinating John M. Really . I fully apologize for saying you lacked imagination. In a lot of ways, that's similar to what I believe as an atheist. Though I take a more poetic interperetation of eternal life...
And Dr fry, I really liked your assessment of the reap/ sow litany. I just try to keep in mind, " you plant ice and you harvest wind." More practical than religious....
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Aug 25, 2016 - 07:01pm PT
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Of course I'm just having fun by posing questions that atheists' will always ask.
I respect most Christians, no problems with me
especially liberal Christians
but if you want to debate, I will ask questions that of course is a sort of a nice troll for a response for a further debate.
It's all fun, I would for sure have a beer with you all
Before Coz died, he was planning a "Kan't We all Get along" Party
Even Norton committed to make it
Right Bro?
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Aug 25, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
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I believe in the Creator for who can create Life out of nothing, except he who knows all and sees all?
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John M
climber
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Aug 25, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
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Thanks Jaybro... I always knew that we had common ground in our belief/disbelief.
Stalhbro asked this question.
I am interested in your a*#ertion that early Christianity accepted reincarnation. What is the basis for that? John the Baptist and Elijah?
Other than Jesus, I am not sure there is a reincarnation tradition.
John the Baptist and Elijah are part of it. But there is more. The Gnostics believed in and taught reincarnation. They were around at the time of Christ, and their teachings were at that time considered to be true teachings. When the bible was put together, their teachings/books were left off. You must know of course that the Bible was not compiled together by Jesus.
then there were two main early Christian Fathers who taught reincarnation. Origen, and Clement of Alexandria. In the 6th Century, the 5th council of churches put together a list of 14 Anathemas for teachings of Origen. For them to go to this length can be interpreted to mean that his teachings were widespread enough that they felt that they needed to do something. What you must also know is that the push to exclude these teachings came from two places. One was high church leaders, another was the emperor at that time. The current pope at that time was against the anathemas and was jailed because he would not go along with it. The church has always had power struggles.
There is more, but I am not an expert on this subject. My teacher taught these things and I believe her.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Aug 25, 2016 - 07:26pm PT
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Good for you studly
so no on evolution, never happened.
Did God create every thing on the same schedule that the geological record and biological evolution has chronicled?
what species has God created recently?
will he create new species in the future?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Aug 25, 2016 - 07:34pm PT
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You sow good seeds, go to heaven
sow bad, go directly to HELL!
See? I knew you never read the bible.
Acts 3:19
19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Aug 25, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
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You caught me
never read it, and never will
my opinion of it,
completely unreadable, can't make it through a single page
But I study religions, so am quite knowledgeable of the Basic tenants of Christianity on the after life
If you say Karma is a part of Christianity, then it is IN this LIFE,
not a reincarnated life where karma will affect you.
Since in Christianity there is Only One human earth life, you get One Chance,
after death you go to the after life dimension, be it heaven, purgatory, hell, or maybe there other places up there that the bible hasn't described...
But no where in the bible does it say that you will be born back on earth in the future and have your past life karma following you around.
next
And if you say that Karma affects you in this life, then you agree that tornadoes kill Gays and floods purge the un-holy.
Tony Perkens, The Gay bashing Christian Family Hate Inst. or whatever, had his house flooded and destroyed last week in the big Baton Rouge floods.
Trump gave his $100,000 donation to the flood victims directly to Tony Perkens,
I guess he can buy a better house now on higher ground, so maybe he did win God's blessings.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Aug 26, 2016 - 01:15am PT
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completely unreadable, can't make it through a single page
But I study religions, so am quite knowledgeable of the Basic tenants of Christianity on the after life
If you say Karma is a part of Christianity, then it is IN this LIFE,
not a reincarnated life where karma will affect you.
Attention deficit disorder is a bitch. I feel for you. But don't say you understand religions without delving into them. You have no knowledge at all.
I'm not sure how you can study religions without reading the original works and most of what you said about the tenets ( not tenants - those are people living in a structure they rent from somebody else) of Christianity is stuff going on in your own personal head.
And to show you know nothing about what the bible says after life :
"Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."
So, in the NEXT life, not this one. Paul actually doesn't think much of This life.
im pretty sure you have no idea about Vedic Karma and what the Mahabharata says happens to Krishna, either.
Most of the expectations of the New Testament are about what happens after death. Surely you have been to a baseball game...ever wonder what the guy holding up the John 3:16 sign was referring to? Hint: it's not the box score of the game.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 26, 2016 - 03:05am PT
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have you ever heard of the atheist dial-a-prayer?
you call it up and nobody answers.
as you get older, you will notice more coincidences, which are really miracles in which god prefers to remain anonymous,
shoving this stuff down peoples throats does not work, it just causes rebellion, and why deny someone their own journey into spirituality, they will get it sooner or later, hopefully not during the last half hour,
just don't let your dogma get run over by a kharma, but if it happens, i don't mind being on the bus watching, as i am not perfect nor ever will be, other wise i would be god, jus sayin, wtf, over?
listen to William James - Varieties of Spiritual Experience they have it on audio book youtube, might put you to sleep, might wake you up,
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Aug 26, 2016 - 07:16am PT
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So, no purpose beyond existing now?
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Aug 26, 2016 - 07:29am PT
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^no, obvi also looking forward to the next great adventure. or next first human 'sperience on an isolate proud summit. or next orgasm. or nexf sammich. or next greeting of a new day with my smiling ginger-dog daemon. also kinda into the concept of a re-melding with the earth, as my particles leave this eddy of my human sekf and rejoin the superior flow of all things cosmic, freed of this mortal coil - after all, no one gets to die my death but me. no gods, no masters
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Aug 26, 2016 - 07:44am PT
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Why debate this????
"Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."
It doesn't say anything about Reincarnation
No where in the bible does it say that you will be born back on earth in the future with your past life Karma, how many times do I have to repeat myself?
the bible deals with the after life by it being your Reward in Heaven
like it says above in your quote, you are like an angel floating around in spirit world after death, period..........
I love how he accuses me of not know nothing about religion because I haven't read the bible, like it really matters.
You know about religion by what the religious Believe, not what they're ancient scripture say.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Aug 26, 2016 - 07:57am PT
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Why do you need one?
DMT
I would like a crutch similar to Gandalf's.
Am I supposed to have a purpose, and a further one? I am so over just existing.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Aug 26, 2016 - 08:08am PT
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Yes
There is No purpose to life
other than breeding and adding your genetic code to the human race pool.
But since we are over populated as a species
most humans should not even bother to breed,
asking the purpose of anything in the natural world makes no sense.
it's like asking what is the purpose of the moon?
It has no purpose, it just exists.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Aug 26, 2016 - 08:36am PT
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Fry, too easy for an overdeveloped conscienceless.
Brave one, you forgot cheeseburger and no such list can be complete without it included.
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