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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 16, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
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Tom C.,
This is actually a very good exercise.
We are witnessing real time disinfo and real time good info. We are seeing who can work through this jungle of evidence, and who can't. We are seeing a very clear distinction and lining up on different sides of the fence.
If we can't prove the truth of this event, then there is very little we can ever prove.
But I know we can prove it.
I have.
When I first made those stereograms, I was already to eat my words if they showed the "contrail" coming toward the coast and coming more toward the observer. I have had egg on my face before. I can stick my tail between my legs, and admit when I'm wrong. I have done it before. I can admit when I'm wrong. Some people can't, even with overwhelming evidence. Pretty sad really.
I knew going into making the stereograms that it looked like the exhaust/vapor plume was lit from behind, that is why I pushed ahead to do it. But I also knew if the stereograms showed it coming toward the coast and toward the observer then I was wrong, and I would have to admit that I was wrong. But they CLEARLY show the exhuast/vapor plume going up steeply and leaning to the W - WNW. I have already shown colleagues and they can easily see it too.
I can even make a set of stereograms from images even more separated and really exaggerate the parallax and these will show it even more. I can do that. But the ones I've made already show it easily and are very good.
Then the massive exhaust/vapor plume was right where I said it would be and easily identifiable in the GOES satellite image and grows toward the W - WNW even in those series of images. The shape and features in the vertical GOES satellite, matches with the oblique details in the massive exhaust/vapor plume taken by the helicopter. I can show this.
It really is not hard to do.
I will post up some from my PPT when I can. Needs to go through some peer review first.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Nov 16, 2010 - 02:59pm PT
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" a jetliner shining like that through the sunset smog,"
For the viewer, the sun has already set. The jetliner is still in full sunset and reflecting the full brightness of the sun. Go to the beach behind LAX and watch the planes coming in from Asia and Hawaii just after sunset. You will see reflections like this.
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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Nov 16, 2010 - 03:03pm PT
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Hey Klimmer,
From the right angle, El Capitan appears flat and Half Dome is whole.
You have firmly established that from you viewpoint, the helicopter video shows a rocket trail or what could be a rocket trail. Along with others, I think it looks like a jet contrail. We disagree. We perceive that video differently. I am fine with that. You have the right to argue however you want.
But if we wanted to try and find some agreement, how could we do that? I could abandon my perceptions and agree that you are correct. You could abandon your perceptions and trust our judgements. Or.... couldn't we walk around it, so to speak and look at it from as many angles as possible? Are there other ways we could try and agree on what we see or is it a hopeless condition?
If you kept arguing that El Capitan was flat and kept showing me the same picture of a flat spot on top, over and over with mathematical calculations and such, I would be curious at first, just wondering if you are going to inform me of something interesting. But quickly it becomes boring and all I wonder about is your thought process. That probably sounds like an insult, but I do not mean it that way. You do not seem like a stupid person to me.
From your perspective, I suppose the better analogy is that you keep showing me photos of the face of El Capitan, but I argue that it is only 20 feet high. But from a single photo, single view, why shouldn't I argue however I think?
I think there might be some fundamental differences in our assumptions or basic thought processes that make it obvious to you that the video showed a rocket and obvious to others that it was a jet contrail. It seems obvious to me to look at the event from different locations and in different ways. It seems obvious to you to study the video tape in greater detail and to get opinions from alternate press sources who also study the video tape in great detail. Or so it seems.
Paul
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 16, 2010 - 03:23pm PT
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3D is 3D.
I can decrease the effect by using images than are closer.
I can increase the effect by using images that are further apart and separated.
But they will never lie about depth of perception and the way things are. It will only enhance the depth of field.
The base of the plume is closer to the observer, and the tip of the exhaust is further away leaning toward the W - WNW.
It is as simple as that.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Nov 16, 2010 - 03:38pm PT
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parallax error
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Nov 16, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
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I can increase the effect by using images that are further apart and separated.
But they will never lie about depth of perception and the way things are. It will only enhance the depth of field.
Use this image.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nov 16, 2010 - 03:48pm PT
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Gib auf, du hast keine chance, Klimmer! Lass es uns beenden! Es ist einfacher fur dich, viel einfacher. Du wirst sehen, es ist gleich vorbei.
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jsb
Trad climber
Bay area
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Nov 16, 2010 - 04:27pm PT
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jsb
Trad climber
Bay area
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Nov 16, 2010 - 04:32pm PT
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By the way, the 3D stereoscope effect is caused by a slight camera rotation between the moments when the two pictures were taken.
Carry on.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Nov 16, 2010 - 04:39pm PT
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so has it been decided?
was it 808 or that ups plane?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 16, 2010 - 04:43pm PT
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was it 808 or that ups plane?
Neither. But it wasn't a Chinese or US missile, either. One group of posters to this thread has definitively proved it was not a plane, while the other group has definitively proved it was not a missile.
So, clearly, it must have been an alien spacecraft. Perhaps the Reptile people came back to pick up their agent (Dick Cheney), or maybe it was the green aliens with oval-shaped heads here to pick up a few unsuspecting Enquirer readers for breeding purposes.
But definitely a spacecraft.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Nov 16, 2010 - 04:44pm PT
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It was an alien spaceship launched from a Chinese sub to rendezvous with visiting Reptilians in the mothership.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nov 16, 2010 - 04:46pm PT
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I think UPS902 (white line below) is a better fit. AWE808 is the red line.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 16, 2010 - 05:04pm PT
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"As the German soldier stabs Mellish to death, he says: "Gib' auf, du hast keine
Chance! Lass' es uns beenden! Es ist einfacher für dich, viel einfacher. Du
wirst sehen, es ist gleich vorbei." This translates: "Give up, you don't stand a
chance! Let's end this here! It will be easier for you, ...
So Mono,
Are you threatening me?
You guys do not understand parallax error. Yes it increases the real effect.
Example:
Vertical stereo pair of the Grand Canyon from 2 images in the flight line taken with 70% overlap. Shows the Grand Canyon is indeed a 3D canyon and that the Grand Canyon is pretty deep.
Another vertical stereo pair of the Grand Canyon from 2 images in the flight line taken with 50% overlap, meaning the consecutive images are further apart. Shows the Grand Canyon is now really deep. This is vertical exaggeration. This is exaggerated parallax error. We know that the Grand Canyon is not that deep, however, it has increased the real effect. It hasn't decreased it. It hasn't turned the Grand Canyon into a Mountain, and inside out.
Get real.
You guys are in over your head. It is as simple as that. Yes, anyone can do it just as I have, and it is pissing you guys off to know that you are wrong. I can easily see that.
This contrail from a jet has been debunked a long time ago.
It is a fired off missile going away from California upward at a steep angle to the W - WNW.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nov 16, 2010 - 05:06pm PT
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It was to demonstrate the hopelessness of your task and stoke your paranoia.
You can take hope in the final outcome though, the german soldier (who was released from capture earlier by Tom Hanks, instead of executing) was killed in the final scenes.
I'd post the pic from Saving Private Ryan but it's too grotesque.
Check with the trig teacher or the physics students you teach at your school before continuing on.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 16, 2010 - 05:33pm PT
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where are the reports of what looks like a missile that should have come from other vantage points in the LA area?
There are no other reports.
Don't-ch-ya know anything about LA?
The rest of the town was busy freshening up their makeup for the night ....
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 16, 2010 - 06:10pm PT
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Glad that got cleared up!
Glenn, I don't think that you responded to the simple question: where are the reports of what looks like a missile that should have come from other vantage points in the LA area?
Mike,
The main-mass of the missile exhaust/vapor plume was over 150+ miles away. The best view at the time was the KCAL helicopter viewing and filming it from altitude. At times he even zoomed into the top portion of the plume. The only reason we saw those flashes of light coming from the missile rocket engine (the flame pointing in our direction) was for the fact that he was filming and zooming in from such a far away vantage.
The top of the missile exhaust is about 177+ miles away. The only reason anyone saw something was for the fact that it went soooo high and the top portion of the missile exhaust/vapor plume was over 150,000+ feet high and then was goldenly back-lit by the Sun that had already set from our vantage point on the ground.
It is pretty simple really.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nov 16, 2010 - 06:42pm PT
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So Klimmer, are you saying those on the ground in Long Beach like Rick Warren did not think it was a missile?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Nov 16, 2010 - 06:59pm PT
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The KCBS news helicopter flew through a wormhole into a parallel universe. The missile launch occurred in that universe, as seen in their video. It was not visible to anyone else and did not appear on the FAA or military radar screens because it did not occur in this universe.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 16, 2010 - 07:02pm PT
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It was seen right around Happy Hour.
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