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pud
climber
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"Broad brush you use. How strong are you?"
"I'm sure there are stronger and weaker people than me. I've had guns pointed at me plenty of times. Can't say it really excited me, or that a gun of my own would have helped me any.
It should be fairly clear from this thread that most folks advocating owning a gun do so because they're afraid of something - their children being harmed, their apartment being invaded, their wallet being stolen, whatever.
To a weak person who is afraid of unnamed monsters doing unnamed things to them and theirs, the gun is a magic amulet to dispel their fears both by allowing them to believe they can defend themselves with just one finger, and by inviting them into a society of like-minded people who reinforce their common bond with jargon, tech-speak and the exchange of personal details about their pet firearms.
As anyone with experience knows, the reality of fighting for one's life is quite different to and altogether less satisfying than the good clean stand-up movie fights which are most folks' experience of it."
Well said, Blight.
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
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Blight,It's not a gun it's a weapon.If you have had numerous weapons pointed at you & you're still here your either very fast or the people doing the pointing weren't serious about killing you.It's our right to own weapons.Big brother thinks twice about imposing things on us Americans. Those socialist countries in europe have been walked through twice in 80yrs.
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Wrathchild
climber
right behind you
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Yeah, you're right, just lay down and die. There are no "bad" people in the world.
BTW what's your adress?
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Blight
Social climber
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"Blight,It's not a gun it's a weapon.If you have had numerous weapons pointed at you & you're still here your either very fast or the people doing the pointing weren't serious about killing you."
Do you know it didn't actually occur to me to ask them whether they were serious? Do you think that would work? There's more than one way to deal with having a gun pointed at you I suppose and having a gun of your own is not always one of them.
Oh, and do you really believe that the two world wars were caused by there not being enough guns in europe?
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
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It's a lot harder when you're fighting from house to house.Been there, done it.It breaks the morale of the soldiers.You never get a break. Most cities in europe just let them drive through & waited for somebody to come liberate them.Do I think this would have changed what happened?No. Maybe they wouldn't have made it to the freakin Atlantic Ocean in a few months.
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mso4 Man
Trad climber
Western MA
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My .02 If you get only one weapon I would reccomend either a full sized S&W 40 or 45 caliber pistol. If you want some real fire power then I would add something like an AK 47 or the legal version a MAK-90. They are small not too expensive and are definatley killers. You can find them online or at gun shows. That is what I use for my main form of protection. That and a pit bull and a German Shepard for the early warning system. I have 7 outside doors and three of them are glass along with too many windows for an alarm system to be cost effective. Glass breaks fairly easily. I too live way out there on top of a hill and I wouldn't even consider not having firepower. Get a digital combo safe for your hand gun and a big locking gun cabinet for the rifle. The most important thing in gun saftey course can be boiled down to two things 1.) don't point it at something you don't want to kill and 2.) don't let it get in the wrong hands. Hope this helps.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Msoman,
Well Done!!!!
Wrathchild, good thinking asking for the address (funny too).
Gary, funniest post yet (9:34 yesterday) but I'm just a little uneasy. A little voice says you may have reason to be confident in your ability to dispose with "problems".
Hitler disarmed the german populace. I believe it was 1933.
Recently 33 states adopted "shall issue" CCW regulation. Every single state saw a drop in violent crime.
Every single godamn one!
Its interesting that the anti-gun people ALSO benefitted because criminals didn't know WHO was packing heat.
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Shack
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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"I've never seen a thread more replete with fear and hatred than this one. Are all americans so weak and so terrified of unnamed monsters that they feel they have to carry a gun?"
Oh my golly Blight, you must be so much stronger,
and braver than us weaker, scared gun owners.
Yea, who said "carry"?
Sounds to me like the only thing your afraid of are guns.
"and very likely that a gun would discharge outside of either the assailant or my control"
What?
These statements could only be made by someone who has never been around guns and is afraid of them.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Hitler disarmed the german populace. I believe it was 1933.
Somewhere around there. Also banned school clubs. Was it East High here in SLC that did similar in the last couple of years? Interesting to be going through the Holocast Museum in DC at the same time with a feller who was "local" to SLC, and exploring the parallels. His comment, "we never learn, do we". Hmmm. Anyhoo. Worth exploring might be the reasoning behind that disarming, versus the legislation with regard to firearms in this country, and those reasons. Especially in the last 20 or so years.
Recently 33 states adopted "shall issue" CCW regulation. Every single state saw a drop in violent crime.
Not sure there is a strong cause and effect there, though. Pro Brady Bill folks might be taking some credit there too. For some reason (or reasons), violent crime is down in the US. I think the FBI, etc, has been studying the reasons. Not sure of the conclusions myself, but, I think CCW has little if anything to do with it.
Its interesting that the anti-gun people ALSO benefitted because criminals didn't know WHO was packing heat.
Pro and anti, of course, both benefit when there's a national dip in violent crime.
Not that I'm an expert on the criminal mind, but, given what I see on the news every night here in Utah, the criminals don't appear to really care much either way if folks out there carry concealed.
That stuff about Super Dell was pretty darn funny, though...
Cheers,
-Brian in SLC
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arete
Trad climber
Estes Park, Colorado
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I installed an underground silo with a ICBM packing a 20-megaton thermonuclear device in the back yard. I thought it would be good for home defense. Havn't been able to take the kids shooting though -- ammo is too expensive.
Not only do the bad guys stay away from my house, but now my neighbors won't even talk to me.
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ryanb
climber
Seattle, WA
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I grew up out in the country not too long ago...I'm 23. Never even heard of a break in let alone an armed robbery...my parents still don't lock their doors.
Did find a loaded hand gun in a friend's dad's closet and played with it. Knew at least one kid who died of a self inflicted gun shot wound. (Really tore our comunity apart)
I'm all for hunting but if you want protection nothing beats a bull mastiff. Huge, loud and loveing.
Saw a study somewhere that the biggest single state by state statistical correlation with the reduction in vilent crime of late is the increase in abortaions (reduction in unwanted children) after row v. wade.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I wonder if there's any correlation between urban/rural upbringing and literacy (could be a related subject).
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Just curious. Arete, are you Pakistani/American?
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dmitry
Trad climber
Chita, Russia
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"Saw a study somewhere that the biggest single state by state statistical correlation with the reduction in vilent crime of late is the increase in abortaions (reduction in unwanted children) after row v. wade. "
WTF??? Please elaborate.
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CarCamper
climber
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Dell, some good, bad, and funny advice here so far. I'm an NRA Certified Home Firearm Safety and Handgun instructor, with 24 years shooting experience. I used to recommend snub-nose .38 revolvers for beginner shooters who wanted a gun solely for home/self defense.
But I've found in our classes that beginners - and women - do much better with automatics. They're a little more complicated but WHEN you take the handgun training class, you'll learn how to load, unload, aim, fire, store, and clean your handgun(s).
Somebody above said to go to a range where you can rent handguns. Great advice. Guns, like anything else, are personal preferences. While I wouldn't want to get shot with one, I don't think a .22 is ideal for defense. Use a larger caliber such as .38 special or 9millimeter (9mm), or even a .40 or .45 cal. if both you and your wife can control 'em. Get 'frangible' ammo; they're designed to not penetrate walls and not to go thru your attacker, either.
Trigger locks are deadly. Keep the handgun locked in one of the small, handgun-sized safes, which can be bolted to your bedframe. Rifles and shotguns should also be locked in a safe that you can get to in a hurry.
Look up info on the Eddie Eagle gun-safety lessons for children on the NRA website. Let your young kids see the gun whenever they want, and take the opportunity to go over the rules with them. I did this w/both mine starting when each was 3. Now they shoot in a youth shooting club. Your kids will eventually be in somebody else's house and you won't know if there're guns there or not. "Gun proofing" your child is the smart way.
Please, if you're going to have a gun in the house:
1- Join the NRA
2- Practice at least once a month
3- Teach your kids gun safety and your wife how to use it
4- Learn your state's rules for home/self defense
5- Get a good gun safe
6- Take a safety course for the type of gun you choose (rifle, pistol, or shotgun)
Other good advice above was to get a dog that can alert you when there's somebody nearby. Also, have a room - such as your bedroom - as a fall-back room. If somebody does get into your house and you have the time, get your kids into your bedroom. Turn the dog loose, get your gun, and call 911 from either your house phone (which may be disabled by the intruder) or your cell phone.
I keep guns because I like firing them. All 4 of us spend a couple of hours at the range and can go thru a lot of ammo. With the right attitude it can be family fun. With the wrong attitude it can be dangerous.
I'm also willing to use one, if I have to, to defend my family and home. If you're not willing to kill someone or something, get a baseball bat instead. Guns are cheap insurance; great to have but pray you never need to use.
Hope this helps.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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Good advice.
Just curious as to why you say trigger locks are deadly. I use 'em (big burly steel ones) when I leave a gun in the car when I am camped in a remote area and off climbing. At least if someone jack's my car they won't be able to use my gun...
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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"Trigger locks are deadly."
I don't buy it. I've read arguments for and against--and I'm willing to read another "against" if you've got the time. I think much of the anti-trigger lock fervor is reaction to what is perceived as restrictive, misguided legislation.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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My vote for the best most informative and incisive post on this thread goes to CarCamper. Hats off.
About all he missed was the absolute necessity of FUNCTION TESTING your expensive normally for combat only fancy pants rounds in the auto you intend to reach for if the situation warrants.
Practice ammo is much cheaper but a weapon that won't fire has a greatly reduced effectiveness. I've often said guns are cheap; shooting is expensive.
Spend the money. You're worth it. Function test.
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arete
Trad climber
Estes Park, Colorado
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Piton Pete -- No, my ancestors came over on the first boat and fought in the revolution. What about you?
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