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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 15, 2009 - 09:10am PT
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hey, all you libs, weren't you saying just a year ago that "dissent is patriotic"?
why is democratic dissent patriotic but republican dissent "extremist"?
here's the key to the tea parties: they're non-partisan; most organizers are not allowing any politicians (repub or dem) to speak...and they're not protesting taxes but spending
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123975867505519363.html
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 15, 2009 - 10:05am PT
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Bookworm, first good morning!
Second, no time to respond to your dissent assertion.
But your statement that "tea parties" are NON PARTISAN is a joke.
Please take a minute to read what the Nobel economist Paul Krugman thinks of what you just said.
Op-Ed Columnist
Tea Parties Forever
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: April 12, 2009
Today’s G.O.P. is, after all, very much a minority party. It retains some limited ability to obstruct the Democrats, but has no ability to make or even significantly shape policy.
Beyond that, Republicans have become embarrassing to watch. And it doesn’t feel right to make fun of crazy people. Better, perhaps, to focus on the real policy debates, which are all among Democrats.
But here’s the thing: the G.O.P. looked as crazy 10 or 15 years ago as it does now. That didn’t stop Republicans from taking control of both Congress and the White House. And they could return to power if the Democrats stumble. So it behooves us to look closely at the state of what is, after all, one of our nation’s two great political parties.
One way to get a good sense of the current state of the G.O.P., and also to see how little has really changed, is to look at the “tea parties” that have been held in a number of places already, and will be held across the country on Wednesday. These parties — antitaxation demonstrations that are supposed to evoke the memory of the Boston Tea Party and the American Revolution — have been the subject of considerable mockery, and rightly so.
But everything that critics mock about these parties has long been standard practice within the Republican Party.
Thus, President Obama is being called a “socialist” who seeks to destroy capitalism. Why? Because he wants to raise the tax rate on the highest-income Americans back to, um, about 10 percentage points less than it was for most of the Reagan administration. Bizarre.
But the charge of socialism is being thrown around only because “liberal” doesn’t seem to carry the punch it used to. And if you go back just a few years, you find top Republican figures making equally bizarre claims about what liberals were up to. Remember when Karl Rove declared that liberals wanted to offer “therapy and understanding” to the 9/11 terrorists?
Then there are the claims made at some recent tea-party events that Mr. Obama wasn’t born in America, which follow on earlier claims that he is a secret Muslim. Crazy stuff — but nowhere near as crazy as the claims, during the last Democratic administration, that the Clintons were murderers, claims that were supported by a campaign of innuendo on the part of big-league conservative media outlets and figures, especially Rush Limbaugh.
Speaking of Mr. Limbaugh: the most impressive thing about his role right now is the fealty he is able to demand from the rest of the right. The abject apologies he has extracted from Republican politicians who briefly dared to criticize him have been right out of Stalinist show trials. But while it’s new to have a talk-radio host in that role, ferocious party discipline has been the norm since the 1990s, when Tom DeLay, the House majority leader, became known as “The Hammer” in part because of the way he took political retribution on opponents.
Going back to those tea parties, Mr. DeLay, a fierce opponent of the theory of evolution — he famously suggested that the teaching of evolution led to the Columbine school massacre — also foreshadowed the denunciations of evolution that have emerged at some of the parties.
Last but not least: it turns out that the tea parties don’t represent a spontaneous outpouring of public sentiment. They’re AstroTurf (fake grass roots) events, manufactured by the usual suspects. In particular, a key role is being played by FreedomWorks, an organization run by Richard Armey, the former House majority leader, and supported by the usual group of right-wing billionaires. And the parties are, of course, being promoted heavily by Fox News.
But that’s nothing new, and AstroTurf has worked well for Republicans in the past. The most notable example was the “spontaneous” riot back in 2000 — actually orchestrated by G.O.P. strategists — that shut down the presidential vote recount in Florida’s Miami-Dade County.
So what’s the implication of the fact that Republicans are refusing to grow up, the fact that they are still behaving the same way they did when history seemed to be on their side? I’d say that it’s good for Democrats, at least in the short run — but it’s bad for the country.
For now, the Obama administration gains a substantial advantage from the fact that it has no credible opposition, especially on economic policy, where the Republicans seem particularly clueless.
But as I said, the G.O.P. remains one of America’s great parties, and events could still put that party back in power. We can only hope that Republicans have moved on by the time that happens.
More Articles in Opinion » A version of this article appeared in print on April 13, 2009, on page
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mdavid
Big Wall climber
CA, CO, TX
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Apr 15, 2009 - 12:28pm PT
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wow, what a ridiculous statement.
"The reason we call you extremists and don't repect your dissent
is because you are wrong"
as a libertarian i'm used to being marginalized and having views disrespected, strange that you are proud of such thinking.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 12:46pm PT
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Spot on, Dingus.
And essentially, Newt had it right a few years ago when he warned Republicans that all the Democrats would have to do to win is say, "Had enough?"
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
the base of the Shawangunk Ridge
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Apr 15, 2009 - 01:17pm PT
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If these tea parties were protests geared towards teaching 1st graders how to use condoms or to advocate for rights for NAMBLA members, it would be "courageous" and "inspiring".
On the other hand when groups of pissed off citizens get together to decry the fact that their money is constantly being thrown away with rampant government expansion and impractical social programs, that is extremism. Racism. Fascism. All kinds of evil isms.
Unfortunately I dont have time to go to a tea part because I'm busy working to buy my own health insurance. Im glad people are finally getting off their butts and saying that their tired of being poorly represented.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 15, 2009 - 01:27pm PT
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From the article posted above
"Thus, President Obama is being called a “socialist” who seeks to destroy capitalism. Why? Because he wants to raise the tax rate on the highest-income Americans back to, um, about 10 percentage points less than it was for most of the Reagan administration. Bizarre. "
THink about that for a bit, in case you missed it. Hypocrites and spin jobs. We should be getting real instead of playing games
Peace
Karl
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
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I don't think it's extremist, just silly. Krugman sums it up nicely.
They are protesting because some tax rates will be restored to the levels that existed after Reagan left office.
Boo-friggin-hoo.
BTW, thank you President Obama, on behalf of the 95% of Americans who got tax CUTS thanks to you.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 02:22pm PT
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"Now he is even calling his political opponents "terrorists." Something he won't even call those that actually claim they are doing so. "
When did he say this?
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Apr 15, 2009 - 02:43pm PT
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"BTW, thank you President Obama, on behalf of the 95% of Americans who got tax CUTS thanks to you."
There haven't been any *tax CUTS* since Bush#2, middle class or otherwise.
Obama has not cut anybody's taxes.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 02:55pm PT
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Actually, that was sarcasm, though probably not in the same way you would see it.
I think cuts right now, unless very targeted, are a bad idea and likely won't accomplish anything stimulating with respect to jump starting the econonmy; they will drive up the debt. The rebate we got last year went to pay off personal debt, not get the economy going.
I just think it's funny that Obama cut taxes for 95% and the Republican tea partyers would rather bitch about the poor 5% who are going to get a tax hike.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 02:57pm PT
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And when did Obama call his opponents "terrorists"?
Put up or shut up.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:04pm PT
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Your guys at the parties are the ones complaining about unfair taxes, not me. That's the point of the party: bitching about taxes and complaing about what a socialist SOB Obama is.
I don't like the tax cut program he got enacted, but I'm not bitching because I think he is out to get my money.
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:08pm PT
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Dirtbag wake up.
Obama did not cut taxes.
At least not yet.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:14pm PT
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Skip, you are a real piece of work.
Go pound a cactus up your a*#.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:15pm PT
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Chaz,
I got a tax cut. Not much, but it is $400/year (I think). Part of the stimulus package.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:16pm PT
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Skip's last "point" proves he has no ideas, only vitriol.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:18pm PT
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"Dirt,
I stand by that statement. He changed the wording of home grown terrorists to include people that debate the topics that have gone on since Hamilton and Jefferson.
This from a man who called Bill Ayres his friend.
Get a clue.
If you don't keep up with the news I suggest you quit reading the BS blogs and start to understand what he is doing.
Skip "
Source?
Put up or shut up.
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:22pm PT
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Dirtbag writes:
"I got a tax cut."
OK. What was your old rate?
What is your new rate?
What's the difference?
I'm betting "zero difference".
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:26pm PT
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Chaz, I didn't say it was a big cut. $400 isn't a big deal to me, really. But it was a cut, and 95% will get it.
I understand the complaints about the Obama spending plan. I get that, and I've stated before that I am skeptical the funding will work as planned. But tax parties complaining about tax increases--I guess for the "other" 5%--seems kind of silly.
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:30pm PT
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If you don't get a $400 check again next year, would that be a Tax Increase?
It's not a tax cut if the rate doesn't drop.
Maybe a rebate or something, but not a tax cut.
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