Serenity Crack p1 bolt is back

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Hardman Knott

Gym climber

Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca

Apr 30, 2008 - 10:51am PT

Placing that bolt is more disgraceful than getting beat up by that 2nd grader...

Hardman Knott

Gym climber

Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca

Apr 30, 2008 - 10:56am PT

Well, then why knott just bolt on some gym holds?

They have some really cool ones these days...

Hardman Knott

Gym climber

Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca

Apr 30, 2008 - 11:33am PT

I agree than chopping it after decades was a dick-headed thing to do.

But placing the new bolt was a vagina-headed thing to do.

August West

Trad climber

Where the wind blows strange

Apr 30, 2008 - 11:35am PT

In the spirit of how the climb was originally climbed: I think the bolt should be chopped and fixed pins should be pounded into all the pin scars.

Nefarius

Big Wall climber

Fresno, CA

Apr 30, 2008 - 12:36pm PT

"I agree than chopping it after decades was a dick-headed thing to do.

But placing the new bolt was a vagina-headed thing to do."

My new *favorite* quote, dude! hahahaha LOVE it! It pretty much sums up the whole thing into two concise sentences.

jstan

climber

Apr 30, 2008 - 01:26pm PT

Hey guys. Anybody can get up there to see what has been done.

Think about it.

Lambone

Ice climber

Ashland, Or

Apr 30, 2008 - 01:29pm PT

"Maybe paint the hanger with pink nail polish!"

now that's funny!

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Apr 30, 2008 - 02:10pm PT

Another example of the Yosemitecentric nature of ST is the number of posts about a bolt on a mediocre route marred by pin scars.

the Fet

Knackered climber

A bivy sack in the secret campground

Apr 30, 2008 - 02:32pm PT

It's funny that the other thread on the Texas Flake retro-bolt people aren't calling for a chopping. But a bolt that helps the riff-raff on a crowded climb needs chopping!

I don't see the need for the bolt, but I haven't done it while it's slimey.

Mr_T

Trad climber

Somewhere, CA

Apr 30, 2008 - 02:47pm PT

Here's a different take on Sirenity - keep the status quo. There has always been a notion that a route stays the way it went on the first ascent. Ignore what happened 30-40 years ago with pitons - that was a different era. Look at Serenity now - it's a free route with a bolt that might not be necessary. Fine. I have no problem sticking an alien in next to it. But for an intro to moderate routes, that bolt probably has saved a few folks from shattered ankles. At least accept that there's an argument and a counter argument to the bolt, and I'm not arguing either. But the fact is, the bolt is there and has been there for 30 years.

Once you go chopping/flattening bolts, you shatter the belief that a route stays the way it went. Making changes to a route is a taboo until people start changing them willy nilly. If you start removing bolts, someone else might start adding them back. Something like the Nose could really suffer if folks start removing/adding back unnecessary bolts. Or perhaps Wheat Thin?

If you leave routes as they are and accept their state as sacred (even if they have too many bolts for your personal needs and something happened 30 years ago), then you're going have a lot less to deal with down the road. You're also going to keep that crew of would-be-retro-bolters restrained by the belief that a route stays as is. If you don't touch existing bolts, they'll have a lot more trouble putting new ones in.

Keep that bolt on Serenity in place and you'll preserve the belief that every other route is un-touchable.

Mighty Hiker

Social climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Apr 30, 2008 - 03:02pm PT

donini: "Another example of the Yosemitecentric nature of ST is the number of posts about a bolt on a mediocre route marred by pin scars."

SuperTopo? Yosemite-centric? Who'd a thunk it?

Of course, an article about the mediocre route marred by pin scars featured prominently in the journal published by Mr. Donini's organization in about 1972. Could be that has something to do with it. :-)

Lambone

Ice climber

Ashland, Or

Apr 30, 2008 - 03:11pm PT

"Another example of the Yosemitecentric nature of ST"

well duh...

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Apr 30, 2008 - 03:11pm PT

Mighty Hiker, thanks for showing me the error of my ways- Yosemite-centric is not one word. Question- an article in 1972 has something to do with what? Do you think that Serenity Crack is worth discussing because it is in some way historic or do you think it's a quality climb?

Nefarius

Big Wall climber

Fresno, CA

Apr 30, 2008 - 03:15pm PT

""donini: "Another example of the Yosemitecentric nature of ST is the number of posts about a bolt on a mediocre route marred by pin scars."

SuperTopo? Yosemite-centric? Who'd a thunk it?

Of course, an article about the mediocre route marred by pin scars featured prominently in the journal published by Mr. Donini's organization in about 1972. Could be that has something to do with it.""

Nice!

Imagine a group of folks, mainly Yos climbers, all debating a climb in Yos, on a site centered around Yos climbing. Concept!

I think the quoted quote really comes off as just some egocentric, rather than Yosemite-centric, drivel. The mediocrity of the route is neither here nor there. Since it's so "beneath" you, maybe folks should be able to whatever they choose, as far as bolting?

And this "pin-scarring makes it a stupid argument" whining BS is really silly. Half the climbs in the valley started as aid routes and are free-climbable today because of scarring. Maybe folks should be able to bolt those as they see fit too, right?

jstan

climber

Apr 30, 2008 - 03:21pm PT

After I took that picture, whenever that was, Steve W took one look at it and said, "That's obscene." I took another look at it and saw that to which he was referring.

What we need to do is to put perfect replicas of Serenity in every climbing area and in every rock gym.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Apr 30, 2008 - 03:24pm PT

Nefarius hit the nail on the head. I apologize for my original quote- there must not have been any caffeine in my coffee this morning. Over and out.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Apr 30, 2008 - 03:25pm PT

Serenity to Sons is one of my favorite climbs and has been repeated mentioned in threads regarding "best 5.10 multi-pitch climbs"

Personally, I don't think Pamela Anderson is very hot but others seem to. In the eyes of the beholder I suppose

Peace

karl

Mighty Hiker

Social climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Apr 30, 2008 - 03:31pm PT

Serenity Crack was claimed as one of the first 5.11 climbs in the U.S., when it was freed by Tom Higgins and Chris Jones. Tom Higgins as in LongAgo, who often contributes to our debates here. The route was featured conspicuously in an article in the 1972 (?) American Alpine Journal, promoting clean climbing - an article that included photos. (I don't have a copy, but believe the article was by Royal Robbins [Edit: by Tom Frost], and the photos of the pin scarring at the bottom were by jstan.) Serenity was the poster-climb to show why we needed to do things very differently.

In other words, even though it's not a particularly notable route in and of itself, it has history, and to some extent symbolizes the debate around bolts and climbing styles. No one has yet said why the bolt was placed to begin with, but my guess is that when people started to free the route, especially the first pitch, the existing clean protection (hexes and stoppers) wasn't of much use there. To deter further pin scarring of the soft rock, a bolt was placed at about the point where people would otherwise be reaching for a hammer. Having the bolt there then may have been thought the lesser of evils. There was a school of thought then (DR?) that believed nuts + a minimum of bolts [Edit: and/or fixed pins] was better than nuts + pitons.

Of course, back in the good old days, p'terodactyls still nested on Half Dome, and ate rap bolters. #46 was still in training.