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jager
Trad climber
Raleigh, NC
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Nov 29, 2006 - 03:27pm PT
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The crazy thing about Hatchcock's record shot was that it was done with a ma deuce (M2) heavy machine gun, not a sniper rifle. He fitted the M2 with a scope and I have heard two stories about how he fired the m2. See the m2 is a full auto weapon, meant for suppression. One story says he squeezed the butterfly trigger with just enough touch to fire one round. The other story is that he modified the m2 to fire single shot.
Like someone else said the shooting isn't the hard part its the stalking. For one of Hatchcock's kills he reportedly crawled for 3 days to get in position to kill an NVA general (IIRC) and crawled 3 days to get back out after the kill. All while people where out hunting him. That's 6 days with hardly any water or food. Probably a good thing though since you can't stand up to use the bathroom, he just had to go when nature called.
'Dear Mom, letters from vietnam' is another great scout sniper book from the vietnam era.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 29, 2006 - 03:41pm PT
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jager (which means hunter),
I said "bushcraft" which encompasses more than just stalking.
I think he locked up the action.
He had just zeroed it on the rock that the guy knealt by the day before.
Scope probably had double sets of rings.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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Nov 29, 2006 - 03:50pm PT
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I don't know the muzzle velocities of the .50 bmg. As a point of reference I have a Mauser k98 (the standard German infantry rifle in WWII (8mm caliber) which does a tad under 2500 fps with good ammo. Just over 2x the speed of sound. They made the same rifle in 6mm as well which is a good bit faster. I only shoot it with open sights, and can lay in decent groups at up to 300 yds on a good day.
On the other subject I would think he had to have the action locked to have any accuracy at all.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Nov 29, 2006 - 03:57pm PT
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I have read that the 50 bmg guys are using depleted uranium rounds, and that with these rounds they don't necessarily have to make a direct hit on their target. For example if the shot misses by a foot over the shoulder but hits a rock wall 2 feet behind the guy goes flying in pieces anyway. Anyone know more on this?
Probably not true. I think the smallest round using DU is 20mm. I managed a projectile from one through airport x-ray pre 9-11: bet it showed up like gangbusters. Heavy, sharp tip, long and pointy.
I'll bet you're thinking of the MK211 round. Nasty little bugger. Also made in a "grade A" version for better accuracy.
A bit controversial, as, some countries don't use this ammo against personnel. U.S. apparently didn't sign that treaty, though. Wierd to think of war having "rules".
Check out the McMillan website...if you want to see some nice rifles...
-Brian in SLC
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Nov 29, 2006 - 03:59pm PT
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I don't know the muzzle velocities of the .50 bmg.
Around 2900fps.
-Brian in SLC
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ice ninja
Mountain climber
pittsburgh, pa
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Nov 29, 2006 - 04:02pm PT
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I miss understood your question.
I don't know the muzzle velocity of a 50cal.
I am not sure if bullets slow down much at all in the X-axis. I think it is only the Y-axis due to gravity.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Nov 29, 2006 - 08:54pm PT
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Vasily Zaytsev, the "hero" character in Enemy at the Gates is said to have had over 400 confirmed kills to his name by the end of the second world war.
However, his is a good exampe of how number of kills isn't the best indication of how "good" a sniper is: although he was undoubtedly a fine shot and was ahead of his time in his techniques for concealment and movement, it should be remembered that he was fighting in the battle of Stalingrad - an urban conflict during which the whole area was pretty much crawling with enemies, making very high kill counts common.
from wiki,
Soviet snipers also successfully used the ruins to inflict heavy casualties on the Germans. The most successful sniper was Ivan Mihailovich Sidorenko of the 1122nd rifle regiment who had made approximately 500 kills by the end of the war. [1] [2]. Vasily Grigoryevich Zaitsev was credited with 242 kills during the battle. He was also thought to have killed an infamous German sniper by the name of Heinz Thorvald, but this claim was never confirmed.
Hard to imagine what the Russians went through then. I mean, on an individual level it may not be as impressive as sneaking through the jungle. But think about defending your homeland.
My gf's grandmother was a Dr. in St. Petersburg or Leningrad back in WWII. The Nazis bombed the food storage and laid seige. Bread was rationed at about 300 grams a day for civilians. They sent her husband from the city earlier but made her stay because she was a MD. She survived and lived a full life. I didnt get a chance to meet her before her passing but I sure wish I could have heard her stories.
wiki,
The Siege of Leningrad (Russian: блокада Ленинграда (transliteration: blokada Leningrada)) was the German siege of Leningrad (now Saint Petersburg) during World War II and one of the most lethal battles in world history. The German plan was coded as Operation Nordlicht (Operation North Light). The siege lasted from September 8, 1941, until it was lifted on January 18, 1944.
Sorry for the drift. I want a good Elk Huinting Rifle was thinking of a 7mm Mag. I think thats a pretty stright shooter what do you "experts" think?
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Ouch!
climber
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Nov 29, 2006 - 09:01pm PT
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I once shot an antelope buck with a 7MM Mag chambered with a hot 110 gr. Spitzer that somehow got mixed in with the heavier stuff. About 300 yds. I walked over and found what felt like a sack of jelly. Blew up on the hide and nothing came out the other side. Plumb wasted that antelope tag.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Nov 29, 2006 - 09:04pm PT
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a Hot round? Like a hollow-point? I guess I need to learn more about this. I used to hunt with Dad 25 years ago and he never was anyone for anything other than your basic lead I guess.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2006 - 09:09pm PT
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I once fired a 1mm stainless steel BB 7km/sec.
Beat that.
JDF
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Nov 29, 2006 - 09:11pm PT
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I will meet you at Intersection rock for a paintball duel, you pilgrim.
High Noon.
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Ouch!
climber
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Nov 29, 2006 - 09:18pm PT
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110 gr. bullets are too light for 7 MM Mag. Not very accurate. I had been handloading various bullets with near maximum charges of probably 4831 or something as varmint loads.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Nov 29, 2006 - 09:19pm PT
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Mimi,
I said I felt remorse for all the lizzies I whacked. I was only around ten years old or so.
"900 Days the Siege of Leningrad" by Harrison Salisbury. I think I got all that correct. I've read it twice, an excellent book.
Presently, I'm reading " Rising 44 The battle for Warsaw " by Norman Davies. It's hard to put down, with much detail, excellent sources and well written.
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada
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Nov 29, 2006 - 09:29pm PT
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I believe the 50 cal that Carlos H. used can fire single shot or full auto without any mods. The one that I learned about in the marines did so.
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TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Nov 29, 2006 - 09:42pm PT
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ice, why would a bullet slow down in response to gravity. Ok, I guess when you shoot up in the air. But when it starts coming down, the force of gravity should cause it to accelerate, no?
Whoever... Yeah, that depleted Uranium stuff is the sh*t. You can miss a guy by as much as 10 meters and he'll still glow almost as bright as the moon. Y'all might be surprised to know that the depleted Uranium is heavier than the reglar stuff. :-)
Can't remember whether I got that out of Popular Mechanics, physics for dummies or Supertopo online guide to nucular phsyix.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Nov 29, 2006 - 09:44pm PT
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That would solve my coyote problem.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Nov 29, 2006 - 10:02pm PT
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TIG, from a good source,
What is depleted uranium?
Depleted uranium (sometimes known as DU) is uranium that is 40 percent
less radioactive than natural uranium, while retaining identical
chemical properties.
The United States Armed Forces used depleted uranium munitions and
armor for the first time during the Gulf War. Depleted uranium's
ability to protect our soldiers' lives was clearly demonstrated.
Depleted uranium is the most effective material for these uses because
of its high density and the metallic properties that allow it to
"self-sharpen" as it penetrates armor. In contrast, anti-tank
munitions made from other materials (tungsten compounds) tend to
mushroom and become blunt as they penetrate. Armor containing depleted
uranium is very effective at blunting antitank weapons.
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JEM
Social climber
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Nov 29, 2006 - 10:44pm PT
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Ouch!-
Have you ever worked the target pit on a big bore range? That kind of experience will surely convince anyone that they don't want to be anywhere near the impact point of a large caliber round. A 30-06 round is very distinguishable from anything smaller. I can only imagine what a 50 cal. round would do. I've seen video clips of a M2 cutting trees down and leveling a cinder block wall.
I shot a Model 52 (22RF) with Lyman 20X scope in my younger years. Although the scope is too narrow for military work, it did teach me a great deal about wind drift without going to a 300 yrd. range. We shot at 50 and 100 yrds.
Here's a Model 1903A1 for sale. There are some nice photos too.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976617872.htm
Here's one accurate 50 cal. sniper rifle
http://www.firstdefense.com/html/new_50_caliber.htm
JEM
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ice ninja
Mountain climber
pittsburgh, pa
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Nov 29, 2006 - 10:48pm PT
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Yo Trad:
It isn't that the bullet slows down in the X-vector. It is the Y-vector. Think the arcing.
I have forgotten a lot about this stuff.
I've had some really good shots but one of the most enduring times was when my team went through a swamp to get into a position. I ended up getting some parasites in my legs that caused much of my skin to flake off. I think I eventually used bleach to kill all of the bugs. It was pretty disgusting.
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