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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Good points Lois, it could be that simple, G2's f-ups (not the weird building failures) But it isn't. Google Joseph campbell father quests. Not that that simp could help it.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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It was a book Twit. They had numerous technologists in construction, explosives, metalurgy from private institutions and universities etc. do an analysis of the entire thing. They also interviewed witnesses that saw various incidents--Pentagon, crash of the flight in Penn. Of course if you want to believe in little green men and vampires, go ahead. It will always be a good topic for your group sessions just before you give each other a hug and line up for meds.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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I just forwarded the above posts to the White House, I wonder if the Secret Service will think it is funny?
JDF
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snooky
climber
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What isn't funny Jaun is the fact Bush had warning about 911 and didn't do anything about it. The memo Ms.Rice shrugged off as historical when quizzed by congress could have been taken seriously but instead ignored. Maybe the drooling dolts at the White House would get a laugh out of that as well, ha ha ha. 911 could have been avoided without across the board incompetence of the Bush ignorant style of non-leadership.
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snooky
climber
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Yeah try to kill the messenger with the education card. Nice try jaun but your grasping at straws. The threats you wish to interpret exemplify your ignorance beyond the pathetic drool of most Bushlickers. Now I wouldn't call for his killing because, if by firearm, it would be a waste of a cheap bullet.
And jaun, it is so nice to be posting on a board with a rat like you, happy happy joy joy!!!!!!!!!
jaun you coward, took your lame post down??
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 10, 2006 - 12:08am PT
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Lois wrote
"In Bush's case, I think the truth is far simpler and adequately explains the facts. He was incompetent as pertaining to the Iraq war and the consequences were devestating."
Lois, Bush had little to do with it except as the puppet for his neo-con buddies. Remember (if you read the evidence posted on supertopo in threads you were supposedly reading) that the PNAC had recommended an Iraq invasion long before 9-11, even before Bush was president. Still, the buck stops with Bush and his henchmen, cause they pulled the trigger.
I get the feeling your'e basing your opinion on more gut feeling than actually considering the mounting evidence like the Downing Street Memos, high level defectors who testified to the lack of WMDS, and fact that Cheney is alleged to divide up the oil assents of Iraq with his energy task force oil company cronies well before the invasion.
On what do you base your idea that we don't need to look below the surface?
Thousands are dead. Thousands more might have been saved in the future if we could have spent the 100s of billions wasted on the war differently. Where's the accountability?
If I got a machine gun and went on a high school campus and killed 200 kids, would it be enough for me to say "Those kids (or their friends) harrassed me on the street, I think they were armed and a threat to my neighborhood?" Wouldn't it be even worse if it could be proved that the kids hadn't harrassed me and that I knew they weren't armed?
Of course not. Bush's crime is even worse than that monstrous scenario. We need to find out for certain, by uncovering the excessive secrecy of the administration, who knew what and when. War is not a joke. A mistaken war is not a boo boo.
Peace
Karl
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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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Nov 10, 2006 - 12:43am PT
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"...As you know, with any conspiracy, you can hide facts but so long..."
Did I miss the part where you tell us who killed JFK and why?
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Nov 10, 2006 - 01:19am PT
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"What isn't funny Jaun is the fact Bush had warning about 911 and didn't do anything about it."
What exactly do you think Bush should have done, huh Snooky?
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Nov 10, 2006 - 01:38am PT
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Most people according to polls don't buy the JFK explanation from the government. When the file was closed for fifty years, it confirmed that they were hiding something. Personally, I've always had a suspicion that Castro was behind it. The Kennedys had tried numerous times through the CIA and the Mob to whack him. Exposing that would have required going to war at a time we were in Vietnam. It also would have exposed many embarrassing things about the kennedys including probable Mob ties. JFK and a leading mob boss were sharing a certain lady. Then, as we all know, Jack Ruby, an affiliate of the Mob, assassinated the assassin. It all stinks. I voted for JFK, and I consider it one of my big mistakes. Historians, when enough time has passed, will drop the hammer on that drug soaked piece of slime.
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snooky
climber
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Nov 10, 2006 - 01:53am PT
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Huh Chaz, He could've halted his vacation clearing brush at his fake ranch and gone back to DC and done many things he failed to do that are the obvious. First of all alert the FAA to heighten security at the airports, pretty simple thing to do and as a matter of fact was done multiple times in the previous decade. He didn't do this obvious option to clearing brush and hanging out at in Texas. And if you wish to hear more there are plenty of things he could have done that he failed to do but I can sense you don't care what anyone says you will just call bullshit so I would advise you to inform yourself with the vast amount of information regarding this blunder. But no doubt you have some sassyass retort. If you haven't learned about this stupidity from Bush at this point you are pretty misinformed.
When reading the ignorant rant fro, Chaz below remember she didn't pay attention to the obvious inform THE FAA.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 10, 2006 - 02:09am PT
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Never mind Popular Mechanics. If you are truly interested in what caused the WTC towers to collapse, start here:
http://wtc.nist.gov/reports_october05.htm
The NIST reports are complete, thorough and credible--debunking each and every one of the hysterical conspiracy theories. That doesn't mean, of course, that some retards won't still believe a conspiracy exists.
Curt
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Nov 10, 2006 - 02:13am PT
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When asked to tell us whet he thinks President Bush should have done to prevent our being attacked on Sept. 11, 2001, Snooky lists these specific items:
-"done many things"
-"plenty of things he could have done"
There you have it!
Execute The Bastard!
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snooky
climber
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Nov 10, 2006 - 02:23am PT
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You left out inform the FAA. I knew you would have some ignorant comeback. If you are so uninformed on this issue it isn't my fault, inform yourself or stay ignorant Chaz.
Sometimes you gotta beat a dead horse but if you don't understand the blunder of this administration concerning 911 you are just dumb as a stump. Go inform your self Chaz because if you don't know how stupid the Bush team was every step of the way before 911 you need professional help.
They are hiring to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic over at the White House Chaz, you would be perfect for the job.
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woodcraft
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2006 - 02:26am PT
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LEB-
It sounds like you're looking below the surface regarding Kennedy, but don't think it's needed for 9-11.
BTW,
I don't think Bush is evil, of that its about Republicans. Clinton bombed the sh#t out of Iraq, and embargo'd medical supplies, and shipped your job off with NAFTA. We live in a pretty wacked culture. Count the number of nuclear warheads. Just because it's normal, doesn't mean it's sane. I think it was Joanna Macy had an exercise about taking stock of your personal weaponry. Do I have high explosives? cluster bombs, napalm, tear gas, tazer, armor?
Also,
I didn't read the Popular Mechanics book, I read an article in the mag on the subject.
What's the title of the Book?
Jay
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Nov 10, 2006 - 02:33am PT
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Snooky says:
"What isn't funny Jaun is the fact Bush had warning about 911 and didn't do anything about it."
But he fails to say what specific things President Bush, or anyone else, could have done to prevent our being attacked.
At the time we were attacked there were 37,000 commercial airline flights a day in the U.S. That's a million flights a month.
We would have had to do a hell of a lot more than "inform the FAA" to keep from being attacked.
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snooky
climber
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Nov 10, 2006 - 02:41am PT
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That plainly shows you ignorance regarding this subject. If you read the 911 Commission report it will say that warning the FAA was one of the more important things that could have been done. When you get a memo that says there is a good chance of an attack with airliners you warn the FAA. Pretty simple Chaz.
Again, you obviously are just spewing lame arguments and do yourself a favor and read the 911 Commission report and you will understand your ignorance.
It doesn't matter how many flights there are a day, if airports had been shut down 911 would've never happened. If you don't think that was an option well you are dumber than a stump.
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Gene
climber
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Nov 10, 2006 - 02:43am PT
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Didn't OBL 'fess up to the dark deed? Or is on the payroll, too. Hope he enjoys his billions in his cave with his multiple veiled wives.
That's it. An international conspiracy involving thousands about which none having information will talk.
If more than one knows, it's no secret.
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woodcraft
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2006 - 02:52am PT
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From the NIST report:
"In WTC1.....The damage to the core columns resulted in local load redistribution to the remaining core columns. The subsequent fire induced high temperatures caused the core to displace downward from plasticity and high creep strains in high stress and high temperatures."
So they're saying that the 47 massive reinforced steel columns sank into themselves from "high creep strains" a hundred stories worth in 10 seconds. WTF.
Want to buy a bridge?
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Nov 10, 2006 - 02:58am PT
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Snooky writes:
"if airports had been shut down 911 would have never happened"
Brilliant!
President Bush should have "shut down" the airports!
And I'M the one Snooky says has "lame arguments" and needs "professional help".
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snooky
climber
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Nov 10, 2006 - 03:02am PT
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You are really a lame one, yes that is exactly what should've been done.
Your argument is let all those people die.....No dumbass, shutting down the airports would've been the responsible thing to do.
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