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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 11, 2015 - 11:45am PT
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In most jurisdictions, the mere act of unholstering the personal sidearm is an "incident" that requires a written report by the officer involved, and that means justification for the action. The cop was clearly "over the line" in this case. Overtly over the line of authority, and engaging in TDI. TDI =threat, duress, and intimidation.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 11, 2015 - 12:15pm PT
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Yep, to unholster a pistol like that when directly confronting someone who is simply holding a camera, on their own property, is a terrible threat.
The fact that he simply drove away after the guy made it too difficult for the cop to abuse him speaks volumes. Hopefully that guy will be reassigned to kicking dogs in the pound again.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Aug 11, 2015 - 12:37pm PT
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+1 fear; that cop is incompetent because he drew his gun. He should be fired. If he had some sort of issue with the guy and his trailer he should have told him his concern; whether he is filming him or not.
I encountered a weirdo cop in the early 80's in Tujunga, CA. Someone had smashed out the plate glass windows at a small gymnastics school I was teaching at so I called the cops. I waited around for 30 minutes and noticed a cop up the street; so thinking he was looking for me I went up there to tell him where to the crime was . i introduced my self and told him the situation and he responded that people were getting away with murder and i wanted him to look at my smashed windows. He then proceeded to ask me if I believed in the death penalty?!
By this time i knew the guy was a nut so i quickly excused myself back to the scene of the crime to wait for a sane person to show up.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Aug 11, 2015 - 02:12pm PT
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The police are granted a special measure of authority and have the prima facie right to employ force, so they simply must be held accountable to the highest standards of professionalism and sensitivity to the rights of citizens.
I'm vastly sympathetic to the stresses they experience, and it must be a nightmare to have your overarching perspectives clouded by continually dealing with the relatively few low-lifes in society. Perhaps we need to effectively pay them more by giving them regular and lengthy "sabbaticals" during each year to give them paid time to decompress and genuinely feel good about serving citizens.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 11, 2015 - 02:42pm PT
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Here, here Madbolter. And I'd add it seems we need to increase training and have continual reinforcement of what the correct procedures are.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Aug 11, 2015 - 03:01pm PT
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Sigh... it all takes money. Perhaps when we the citizens get tired of the abuse-of-power issues, we'll get serious about funding police (salaries, sabbaticals, and training) they way they should be funded.
And I don't mean via more speeding ticket revenue! LOL
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 11, 2015 - 03:25pm PT
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Sigh... it all takes money.
I disagree. It takes more civilian oversight.
They have forgotten that they work for us.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Aug 11, 2015 - 03:34pm PT
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I disagree. It takes more civilian oversight.
It also takes that.
But I'm talking about my suggested higher pay and paid sabbaticals (which means the need to hire more cops per shift to have the same net force). I'm all for paying to get these guys some decompression time and additional training (particularly regarding constitutional rights). Mandatory, constant-running body cams with mandatory IA review of all drawn-gun incidents, however "slight."
They have forgotten that they work for us.
Agreed... in too many cases they have.
Perhaps an additional sales tax would fund what I have in mind, of course with exemptions for basic necessities and with heavy vice/luxury weighting.
Then, we can truly say that there is NO excuse for bad cops, and they are quickly drummed out with extreme prejudice and even do jail time.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Aug 11, 2015 - 04:17pm PT
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The video is incomplete and thus analyzing it is impossible.
If the cop had a legal reason to be there, reasonable suspicion that crime had occurred or was about to occur, than he had every right to tell that person to take his hands out of his pockets, and possibly put him in handcuffs if he refused to comply.
If the officer truly believed that the person was a danger the officer, himself, or others then he also had the right to use force to tell him to take his hands out of his pockets.
If the officer didn't have any of that, and simply felt a little uncomfortable with the hands in his pockets, or wanted compliance for no reason he could articulate, then he probably can't justify use of force.
No way to tell from the video. The only thing I will say about the video is that the gun draw was probably not the best use of force decision by the officer regardless of the situation (I'd have gone hands on if I had legal reason to do so), and the person recording is childish.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Aug 11, 2015 - 04:49pm PT
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The Rohnert Park Police Department placed Officer Rodriguez on temporary paid administrative leave and initiated an independent investigation after he pulled his service weapon at a local resident for video recording incident.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Aug 11, 2015 - 07:14pm PT
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Think about it. MS13 gang members are enrolling in the United States military, doing their time and returning back to the gang (with Uncle Sam veteran's benefits no less) in order to fend off The [out of control] Man.
hey yo bitches
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 11, 2015 - 08:26pm PT
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That barely covers his food per diem on donuts...
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SalNichols
Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
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Aug 11, 2015 - 10:12pm PT
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They're already well paid.
We need a higher bar for recruitment; and
We need periodic psych evals. PTSD is real, and they can suffer from it....placing the rest of us at risk. Although these f-ers already outclaim any of us in disability claims.
The RP cop needs a time out. He's out of control.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Aug 11, 2015 - 10:33pm PT
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Thanks for that link, Crimpergirl.
$61,826.17 in benefits? WTF? That's over $5,000 a month. In *benefits*.
What kind of *benefits* are we talking about?
Remember, most Americans don't make $61,826.17 a year in gross income.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Aug 11, 2015 - 11:13pm PT
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Wow. Okay, Crimper blows our minds with what she found. I retract all my sympathy-pay ideas.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 12, 2015 - 06:13am PT
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^Although many new ones are paid very poorly. I think the bigger problem is that those who want to be officers are generally poorly prepared, and lack a true understanding about what the job really entails.
About a century ago, August Vollmer called for officers to have college educations, be trained as social workers (because that is the bulk of what they do day-to-day), be able to write well (reports is a big part of it), be trained well in M.O. and other investigative tools(e.g., in use of firearms - there was once a fight over whether police should carry guns - many in policing agencies were against it since it was a sign of 'weakness' - etc.). All this time later, our officers ARE better trained, but they are trained for a job that happens in the movies mostly, and not in real life. They (and the public) are raised on a diet of 'kicking heads in' media versus conflict resolution that is so important.
I adore August Vollmer and have written several pieces about him. He's done far more than I wrote above too. It's a shame we did not adopt his views then.
Here is his wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Vollmer
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 12, 2015 - 06:26am PT
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There are police, and there are soldiers. It's going to be relatively impossible to find someone who can do both effectively as they require completely different skills and tools.
In stressful situations people react how they train. Train like a soldier, which many departments do now, and you get that kind of reaction even when not warranted.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 12, 2015 - 08:11am PT
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Since these guys are "public servants," they should be held to an even higher standard for carrying deadly force than the military. This militarization of the police MUST stop, or we are simply setting things up for lots on nasty confrontations. Cops should be subject to a yearly psychiatric exam to determine stability and pick up any lurking PTSD; a spot check should be available for the department supervisors in cases where complaints are filed.
Yeah, it's a tough job, but $172 K per year in salary and benefits? That's a helluva lot more than grunt infantrymen make.
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