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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2014 - 08:54am PT
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Yet here you are.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Oct 10, 2014 - 10:32am PT
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Yet here you are.
Yes, here he is. And you are. And I am. But somehow The Chief is not. Or not now.
He was here, and making some good points (if in his usual abrasive fashion). But he seems to have vanished.
What happened?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 10, 2014 - 10:48am PT
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What happened?
How dare he leave us in the lurch!
A question that I have is that like so many social projects the 'conclusions'
seem to be rather blithely taken for granted as if it was some sort of physics
experiment with proper controls and such. And it seems to me even more blithe
to assume that the longer term prospects will prove much more than a bandaid
on an arterial gusher. Wouldn't it be better for society as well as these
people to just round them up and put them in a happy home where they can
shoot up under controlled conditions with state-provided smack?
Why go half-assed on this?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2014 - 11:56am PT
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What happened?
He called me something like an attention whore for unknowingly making 2 identical threads, 2 years apart.
But 30-40 of the posts in this thread were his, thus my "Yet here you are." comment.
He wasn't getting enough hugs apparently.
He should also qualify for Couch's deleting thread now......
At any rate Ghost, you and Tami and others who actually have first hand knowledge with the facility in question are to be commended.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Oct 10, 2014 - 03:31pm PT
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This is becoming the ever-shrinking thread. Every time I look at it, more posts have been deleted. Rick deleted all of his, but since then a few more have disappeared.
But for what it's worth, it struck me that a couple of people, both of whom had intelligent and relevant things to say, just couldn't resist insulting one another instead of trying to find common ground -- of which their was plenty.
The problem was that The Chief was looking at things from the relatively narrow point of view of "what is the best way to help the addict," while most of the rest of us were looking at it from the "what is the best way for the community to deal with this problem" point of view. And then BK started looking at it from the "what is the best way to insult The Chief" point of viww, and The Chief retaliated in kind, and the two of them ruined it for everyone else.
Typical day on the internet, I guess, but it is frustrating when people with good ideas get so wrapped up in harshing on each other that they forget the 90% common ground they share on a subject.
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John M
climber
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Oct 10, 2014 - 03:44pm PT
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Good post Ghost.
Its an important subject. I wish people could get past their stuff.
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John M
climber
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Oct 10, 2014 - 05:35pm PT
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but the main thing I am directing insult at is unreasonable people,
exactly.. your inability to NOT insult people makes conversation difficult.
You only control yourself.
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John M
climber
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Oct 10, 2014 - 06:19pm PT
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never intends to seek resolution, only continued dominance and control of the conversation to further their power?
What do you think that you accomplish by attacking such a person? Doesn't that just further the noise?
Did you notice that the Chief and I managed to have a conversation? How does that align with your paradigm?
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 10, 2014 - 08:54pm PT
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Tami -- "the issue of addiction and people is vitally important to attend to in order to create a civil society."
Yes ... very nice.
Generally one can not give up something unless its greater.
This how you can tell false renunciation from the real.
When it's completely real one will never go back .....
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2014 - 12:35am PT
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Well, I'm glad that a few of you stuck around anyway. Obviously I feel that it's an important subject, and I also feel that Vancouver was doing the right thing in following the example of some hard hit places in Europe. They thought outside their box. Or rather, they thought outside the North American box.
The chief is an experienced guy, who tries to walk the walk. I admire that. He has put in his time trying to make a difference. He was making good points here, as he always does. What rubs me wrong is the way he talks down to others on any subject, as though his point of view is the only one with any merit.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Oct 11, 2014 - 09:33am PT
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What rubs me wrong is the way he talks down to others on any subject, as though his point of view is the only one with any merit.
Too true. And if you don't agree with him 100%, he reacts as if you should be thrown in the brig. Doesn't matter if you agree with 99% of his idea, and have a question about just 1% of it. Unless you say "Chief, you are absolutely right!" he's on you like a rabid badger.
But I think we were starting to get him moving toward some kind of dialog on this one.
Oh well... next time.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2014 - 09:49am PT
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On you like a rabid badger.
Honey Badger don't give a shit!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
And for now I am officially done bagging on the chief, since I do have much respect for his past, a position which he has so far not afforded to me.
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John M
climber
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Oct 11, 2014 - 10:16am PT
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I can't reply adequately right now ( probably welcomed by most it seems) but for now I suggest there is overt forms of disrespect and then there are insinuated forms, and I suggest that engaging in a conversation from a position of intransigence is as insulting or more so than any other, as it subverts process, a process that connects us despite differences. It serves no purpose to pretend otherwise simply o " get along".
It's an ethic that is insulting. I get it that replying in turn doesn't elevate the conversation and respect that maybe your right and maybe I' ll just shut up for now seeing how at least some would appreciate it
Its not that we want you to shut up. Its that we wish that you really did get it. Your first paragraph and your history here tells me that you don't get it. Your first paragraph above says.. what he did is worse, so it justifies what I did. We all agree that how the Chief communicates isn't very respectful. We get that. But your argument is just like Lois' argument. Formerly known as LEB. " He attacked me first". Yours is slightly different, but still has the same effect. To dominate the conversation.
Don't shut up. Change how you respond to situations like this, because assuredly, even if its not the Chief, there will be someone else who acts this way.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Oct 11, 2014 - 11:08am PT
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Been burying far too many of Shipmates lately....
Nowhere near as many as would have been buried if you, and others like you, hadn't been doing what you do.
Sometimes the world is a shitty place.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2014 - 11:16am PT
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Sorry to hear that. That is bad news indeed.
There have been 3 suicides that hit way too close to home in my life this year also. That's a whole other rough subject.
We need more dignity in death laws, like Oregon.
Once again, sorry The Chief.
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