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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jul 23, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
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Dave is right on, pulling by hand is no "test", no surprise you can't get a new slick skinny to lock in that scenario. My SP has never failed to lock on any rope in an actual fall.
OTOH, I've done similar to DT on a gri-gri...went 15' and stopped about 8" off the ground when the newish rope wasn't loaded quickly (slipping down a less than vert face) and just kept sliding through.
You seem hell bent on implying there is some design flaw or something, and calling for someone to "admit" something. Yet, in 20 years, you are the only person I've ever seen claiming this "problem", and somehow the rest of us who own it have never experienced this so-called "problem".
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Ibex
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
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No, I am NOT saying that there is anything wrong with the SP. It does what it is designed to do, and it is a great device. Just forget about your own experiences and listen, if you wish. The blocking of the clove hitch relies on friction (rope-to-rope and rope-to-metal). Very simply, a brand new, slippery rope (mine is 10mm, Unicore, Golden-Dry) does not seem to provide enough friction... And yes, the blocking performance does depend on acceleration / speed. However, MY HOME TESTING, PULLING BY HAND, SUGGESTS THAT VERY SLIPPERY ROPES TEND TO SLIP ENDLESSLY. Therefore, ALL I WANT TO SAY IS: Do your own tests before you go climbing. Until further testing, tomorrow am leaving for a climb with my SP (2500ft, 5.9) but I am taking my old rope :-)
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jul 23, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
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When I first got my SP I tested the sh#t out of it.
I rigged a seperate toprope that I tied into short of the ground on overhanging terrain.
Then I took all kinds of falls on it it, Rigged right, rigged wrong .. did everything I could think of to make it fail.
Till I understood it and trusted it.
Offhand it sounds like this is just one rope that might not be best suited for the SP.
But i'd like to see you test it in a real fall with backup and see what happens..
I am curious
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Ibex
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2013 - 05:47pm PT
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I did the same when I bought mine, years ago :-)
But since I was the first (and the only one so far) who reported this problem, I will do a realistic fall-on-the-SP test to see what happens and I will report back to you here, provided that I will come back from the previously-mentioned climb (I will be away until Saturday). In the meanwhile, if anyone else has access to a brand new, Unicore, Golden Dry rope, please try to do the same basic test that I did, which is also suggested in the SP manual.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jul 23, 2013 - 08:44pm PT
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Risk nothing, fear everything!
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Ibex
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
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I am coming back to report that after taking that brand new slippery rope on a big alpine route (2400 vertical feet of sharp granite) now it functions just fine with the SP. Yet, the question remains: is it safe to use a brand new slippery rope with the SP? I did not have the time to do a proper test simulating a real fall. Be cautious and do your own testing if you plan to use the SP with a brand new rope (mine was a Beal Tiger Unicore Golden Dry).
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Aug 14, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
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Ibex, you are on here bad mouthing the Silent Partner for quite some time now, but you have not even taken the time to rig it up and jump off with a spot or pad under you so that you can see that even with new ropes it will lock off? WTF?
I have taken the time, and a clove hitch WILL lock up on a Silent partner, new rope or not. Do yourself a favor and the rest of us, and delete this thread by deleting your first post.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Aug 14, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
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Over at Mountain Project, the first rule of posting is: Don't be a jerk.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Aug 14, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
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In my experience w/ the SP, the drag of an old rope & it's tendency to seize when pulling slack was more annoying than using a new rope that feeds well but wouldn't catch on a pull test. If you want a device that let's you "take" on the rope, use a gri-gri. I want to use the SP if I'll need to free climb for a stretch and don't want to deal w/ my device at all. In my relatively limited experience falling on it, it seems to give a plenty hard catch when the moment arises.
Before I climbed outside w/ my SP for the first time, I went to the gym, got 2 belayers...one for a TR and one to be my anchor for the SP, and I led a backed up pitch on the SP and then fell on it a couple of times and did the butt-friction lower described in the pamphlet. That's a better way to test its ability to grab your rope.
(But of course, use back up knots and maybe run your weigh catcher sooner to avoid back-feeding w/ a slippery rope.)
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Ibex
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2013 - 03:50am PT
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The SP has been and it still is an awesome device. I have used it extensively (probably more than most of you, guys) and I will continue using it.
I posted this topic because I noticed that its functioning is problematic when using extra slippery ropes. IN THE MANUAL (PAGE 14) IT IS WRITTEN: "GIVE IT A SHARP, QUICK TUG. THIS ACTION WILL SHOW YOU HOW IT LOCKS". Yet, with an extra slippery rope it does not lock! I experimented with a brand new Beal Tiger Unicore Golden dry 10mm. If concerned, go and do your own testing.
Studly: You can keep the WTF for your self! I bought that rope and the next day I had to use it, I am sorry. Now I have time for further testing but I do not have a brand new, slippery rope anymore.
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Deekaid
climber
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Aug 15, 2013 - 10:10am PT
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many have made their own tests and are not concerned ...thanks though.
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Ibex
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
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If you are part of the many, and if you please, can you share with the rest of us the details and the results of your tests? I have done my own fall tests in the past, but here I refer particularly to brand new ropes with dry coating. Have you and the many understood this important detail?
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Aug 15, 2013 - 03:50pm PT
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Have you even once Ibex jumped off on a new rope and tested the Silent Partner? It appears you have not, even after being told repeatedly that is what is necessary to alleviate your fears. You jumped to conclusions just by hand pulling the rope. With a slippery new rope with dry treatment, it generally won't lock up with a hand pull, but only with a fall that generates some speed, and with the correct rope orientation as in actual climbing.
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sangoma
Trad climber
south africa
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Aug 15, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
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Ibex , you had better send me you're SP and a brand new slippery rope so that I can do some extensive testing for you , we don't want you falling on you're head , now do we ?
PS, make that a blue rope pls.
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Abram
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Aug 15, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
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I think the point is that starting a thread with an incredibly sensationalist title like "Potential DEATH with SILENT PARTNER by RockExotica" is not cool, when you haven't even bothered to confirm the validity of a pretty grave accusation that you're making. SPs are safe, reliable, and pretty much foolproof. If you're going to say otherwise, bring some real evidence!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 15, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
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Ibex, give it a rest. If anyone strapping on an SP actually needed this 'warning' they shouldn't be rope-soloing to begin with. And on SP the audience of people who would give a damn about the topic probably run more solo yardage in a season than you will over the course of your climbing career.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Aug 15, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
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I hand tested my brand new Silent Partner with a brand new Metolius 10.2 Monster rope successfully a dozen times before I took it out on the rock and did a jump test. It easily locked up in the hand test. My rope was not a dry rope and was thicker that Ibex's but it is similar. I would have had the same concerns as his if my hand tests had failed.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 16, 2013 - 02:54am PT
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Sure, but if a rope did fail that hand test, would you question the SP or the appropriateness of that particular device/rope combo? And wouldn't you just try a different rope?
I use a 9.9mm NE Glider with my Eddy and arrived at it after some trial and error. Calling an impedance mismatch between a solo device and any given rope a "VERY SERIOUS SAFETY ISSUE" is more than a little over-the-top as is relentlessly pushing the issue as such.
Again, anyone who can't figure out - if a given rope is slipping through their solo device - that they then need to try another, definitely shouldn't be rope-soloing to begin with.
Better would have been a simple statement, minus the hysterics, that the combination of an SP and a 10mm Beal Unicore appear to be sub-optimal.
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Ibex
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2013 - 10:30am PT
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I agree that the topic title may have been too much. Yet, for safety issues too much emphasis is better than not enough emphasis. In any case, despite all reassurances that Studly tries to put forward, I find quite alarming that the hand test fails and I don't give a damn about any guesses that "it will" lock in a real fall. I asked him very directly: what are the details and the results of the tests that he mentioned, there was no response on that. Mr Studly, I ought to tell you that the human hand can pull with an acceleration greater than the gravitational one. Moreover, even school kids know that between two solid mediums higher relative speed does not mean greater friction. Do not talk about physics if you understand too little of it.
You seem to refuse reading before answering:
I bought that rope and the next day I had to use it, I am sorry. Now I have time for further testing but I do not have a brand new, slippery rope anymore.
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Deekaid
climber
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Aug 16, 2013 - 11:03am PT
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You appear to be the one with the reading issue. People have stated over and over that they have tested it with new slippery ropes. It isn't worth restating and you seem pretty trollish.
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