Stepping on the Rope OK?

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jfs

Trad climber

Upper Leftish

May 11, 2013 - 11:46pm PT

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT

May 10, 2013 - 05:38pm PT
actually crampons don't do anything to the rope unless you put it on the pavement and stomped the crap out of it. crampons on snow does absolutly zero damage to a rope.

Guffaw!!!

wait...I think he's serious...

What I mean to say is...this is erroneous information.

ms55401

Trad climber

minneapolis, mn

May 12, 2013 - 12:18am PT

I don't think this is a troll. It's a pretty good example of one of those old practices ('wives tales', if you must) that has been fairly debunked in recent years.

If someone has demonstrated science showing how Rope A, subjected to heinous trampling abuse, consistently failed well before Rope B, treated with princess-like care, I'd love to see it.

this post should have been the last post. but it isn't.

I'm not saying gratuitously step on your rope and do a John Travolta spin, but it's not worth fetishizing an unstepped-upon rope. Ropes get stepped on, even by crampon-adroned boots. Ain't no thang.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

May 12, 2013 - 07:20am PT

Jfs, Ice climbing there are many,many situations where you have more serious sh#t on your mind than worrying about if you or someone else stepped on the rope. In 30++ years of climbing i have seen only one rope actually dammaged from crampons. It was kicked repetedly by the leader with freshly sharpened horozontal front points. Rope on snow the poons never penetrate, rope on rock if the poons are dull nothing happens, sharp poons as in first 3 weeks out of the box, yes they will penetrate the rope so that should be avoided. It has been tested and usualy the points that penetrate do not cut the fibers, they slide between the fibers. still not a good idea at all. One or two pitch like this and the poons are usually dull enough it is a non issue;)

Reeotch

Trad climber

4 Corners Area

May 12, 2013 - 08:31am PT

YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY NEVER STEP ON YOUR ROPE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, EVER!

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

May 12, 2013 - 08:37am PT

good luck with that one;)

Spider Savage

Mountain climber

The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles

May 12, 2013 - 08:53am PT

It's bad luck to step on a rope.

May or may not be a fact. But it's a "best practice."

jfs

Trad climber

Upper Leftish

May 12, 2013 - 09:40am PT

Tradmanclimbs,

Cool.

And interesting. Just not my experience.

Cheers.

covelocos

Trad climber

Nor Cal

May 12, 2013 - 10:17am PT

Step on my rope and you owe me a beer.

rgold

Trad climber

Poughkeepsie, NY

May 12, 2013 - 10:30am PT

I'd say something to someone who just casually walked across a flaked rope; that's just plain stupid. There could be a sharp rock underneath, and full body weight applied through a portion of a single foot could create enough pressure to nick the sheath.

The fact that it is unlikely that such actions will hurt a rope is the wrong way to think about it. There is a small non-zero probability that the rope will be hurt, as Cosmic's experience proves beyond question. When the simplest precautions can eliminate such possibilities, it is foolish not to take them. I've never seen a situation in which you couldn't nudge the rope aside with a toe and not step on it, so what's the big deal?

The trouble is that what amounts to the most elementary common sense ends up formulated as an inviolable commandment, "Thou shalt not step on thy ropes!" and then the silliness of such an absolute prohibition undermines it's appropriatness.

I often gently step on my ropes when setting up rappels, to eliminate rope weight while I'm threading my device. But of course I do this on a flat area without sharp edges or pebbles, and I don't come anywhere near applying full body weight.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

May 12, 2013 - 11:17am PT

rgold, the voice of reason and common sense.

FRUMY

Trad climber

SHERMAN OAKS,CA

May 12, 2013 - 11:20am PT

Oh come on Locker.

Next you're going to be saying there is no one living on the back side of the Moon.

If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber

Potemkin Village

May 12, 2013 - 11:27am PT

I often gently step on my ropes when setting up rappels

nor would I hesitate to step on a rope running through an anchor to a surprise out of control falling climber if this were the last resort, as sometimes only a couple pounds are needed to arrest slippage.

;)

rgold

Trad climber

Poughkeepsie, NY

May 12, 2013 - 09:46pm PT

Question = "Stepping on the Rope OK?"

One Answer = "I often gently step on my ropes when setting up rappels"

So your answer ALSO is, "YES"...(EDITED: With explanation)

Well, at least you added the "with explanation" proviso. But if you are going to quote out of context, you could just have well quoted the part where I said stepping on the rope is "stupid."

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

May 12, 2013 - 09:54pm PT

Rope on snow the poons never penetrate

Uh, I guess you've knott done that experiment on neve. And just how could
it not do some damage? It may not do major damage but it can't
be good for it and it most certainly could do major damage cumulatively.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

May 12, 2013 - 10:19pm PT

Neve is neve, snow is snow. Not a great idea either way but not worth blowing your top at someone when you have a serious climb to deal with. keep it calm, keep it informative but do not treat it like a cardinal sin, a black and white rule that has been broken and now deserves serious repremanding. That approach will only ruin the vibe of the climb.

The rope I am useing today, a 10.2 Sterling Marathon. the very first day I used it was a GU FA of an 11a trad climb. I blew a bird beak drilling a bolt, took a 20 footer with the power drill, bolt kit, hammer, pins, FA rack etc. Well over 200lbs. Both Ed and I then took multiple falls in the same spot trying to free the climb. I have since then rapped many virgin rough cliffs cleaning and trundeling. Jumared quite a few pitches, bunch of solo gri gri TR time, lots of lowering and had a few additional falls on this rope. It will be retired soon not because of dirt but because of heavy use. BTW lowering causes more wear on your rope than just about any other climbing activity.

Today I had this rope stacked on a grassy dirt belay ledge. I kept my feet on the rope to keep my shoes dry after last nights rain. It was safer leading with dry shoes. I rarely use a rope bag/tarp as it is just one more gimick to carry around. YMMV

Rudder

Trad climber

Costa Mesa, CA

May 13, 2013 - 03:50am PT

"""Observed faults and failures
The Technical Committee (*1 UIAA comment, see end of paragraph) has received 20 reports of failures and/or serious damage to ropes (both dynamic and static) over the last 15 years. Two failures were caused by contamination of the rope by corrosive substances, one (dynamic) rope was damaged – but did not fail – as a result of excessive jumaring (*2 UIAA comment, see end of paragraph) and the remainder were due to serious abrasion over rough or sharp rock edges. In a small number of cases, abrasion to the rope resulted in its failure during a fall with serious consequences, including one fatality.
UIAA Comments on this part
1) The BMC Technical Committee
2) use of a rope clamp

How to prevent failure in use
The key to preventing failure during use is to minimise abrasion, or at least recognise serious abrasion to a rope before you use it through regular physical inspection of the entire length of the rope. This is probably most easily done whilst coiling the rope after a climbing session, and should be practised without fail. Assuming that there is no visible damage to the rope when you begin using it, the overriding priority whilst in use is to avoid allowing the rope to drag over sharp edges and rough rock as in Figure 10.3. This necessitates constant attention to where the rope might run during a climb, and also to how and where it will be loaded over the rock in the event of a fall. This in turn requires some skill and knowledge on the part of the climbers whilst placing runners (look out for sharp edges and protrusions near your runner placements) and setting up top-rope or belay anchors (often the use of a rope protector or padding material is appropriate).

Figure 10.3 Serious damage to a rope in use Photo: BMC Collection
In addition:
• Do not throw the rope down onto gritty or sandy ground if at all possible – small particles of dirt or grit can adhere to the nylon and then be ground into the sheath or core during normal use. Potentially this could cut some of the ropes fibres and cause it to fail with no visible evidence that it had been weakened.
• Avoid standing on your rope for the very same reason. It goes without saying that you should exercise extreme caution whilst using your rope with ice tools and crampons.
• It is advisable to avoid speedy abseils, which allow the abseil device to heat up very rapidly and can cause melting of the rope if the descender remains in contact with it at the end of the abseil – nylon has a low melting point!"""

For years I've been annoyed with snarky comments about stepping on ropes. I've always told my gang to try to avoid it but it was really not worth getting excited about. Certainly scolding someone about stepping on a rope was silly. But, recently I've read the UIAA and other reports that say my viewpoint is not correct. Chemicals, sharp edges, and dirt and grit are the main reasons ropes break.

The following link is making the same point, "don't step on the rope" may not be an old wives tale after all:

http://www.climbing.com/skill/dirty-little-secrets/

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber

I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!

May 13, 2013 - 05:36am PT

what about sleeping on the rope, and danger from nocturnal emissions?

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

May 13, 2013 - 06:18am PT

The UIAA thing seems to be totally unscientific. they say that all the rope failures were caused by weighting over sharp edges and then go off about stepping on the rope with no connection to any actual tests or failures. I read tests years ago that said rapelling and lowering were the biggest culprits and a new rope with something like 10 lowering cycles had lost 40% of it's strength.