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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Apparently the tens of millions (hundreds of millions?) of men taking drugs for erectile dysfunction are not ready to let nature takes its course with their physiology!
Do you think if you take Viagra, it's a Fair Means Ascent?
I actually have a "personal" connection to HGH. When I worked in biotech, I constructed a few different expression vectors for its recombinant production - one for mammalian expression in tissue culture cells and one for expression in plants. I don't have the time now, but maybe I'll say more about this all later.
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c_vultaggio
Trad climber
new york
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Personally this sort of thing is not for me, and I'm bowing out of the ethics debate, but a friend started taking it a few years back and I can offer some observations/feedback.
He's not a climber, but involved in other sports and has definitely and unquestionably become stronger as a result. A big part of it is the shortened recovery and healing time - for instance he suffered a bad crash which took out a handful of ribs and was competing a way shorter time later than I would have dreamed (having broken ribs a number of times myself).
He mentioned that old nagging injuries are gone.
Less sleep required. He has a grueling work sked (some 80/hr weeks) and can function quite well routinely on 4 hours.
Increased endurance - he was strong to begin with, but even as a smoker he can outpace me and I train pretty hard. He doesn't train at all, and was cautioned against any heavy weigh-training it by his dr. And he's 5 yrs older.
Scalp hair regrowth (not him but another guy the doc he gets the HGH from) reported.
Again, not me, but I've observed much of these effects first hand. The stuff works, and it is also crazy expensive. Each course runs +/- 2k and you have to take at least 6 courses to have any results. Said he was scared sh*tless the first time he had to stab himself in the belly with a syringe full of the stuff...
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Pebble Wrestling.... Badly lately.
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In that I am hypo-pit I have taken all of the supplements that you might want to take for enhanced performance. Upping your T is a radical adventure and you will get strong so long as you put the effort in. Sex of course is great with it. HGH is much more subtle. I injected for 6 months (usually in the thigh) and noticed some improvements that I didn't expect and some I did. I got stronger, and thinner and did recover faster. My eyes got better, my skin got better (which is pretty bad without any in my body) and my colesterol and lipids improved. My climbing got better but it is hard to say how much was because I was thinner. But the cost, even with insurance, is outragous and stabbing yourself everyday sucks. Even without any HGH in my body, at 60 I can climb 5.12 and boulder with 20 year olds so don't think you are magically going to see huge improvements with HGH like you will with T. In either case, if you don't do the work you won't see the results.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Drug companies cannot patent HGH or any naturally produced body hormone so their is little money in them as with the proprietary drugs for which they have created, own the patents and prevent any competition. If a pharmaceutical company could produce some drug that acted very similar to HGH we might see it for sale.
How is it that HGH is reputed to create growth in all manifest forms, yet some cite stories of how bad it is and others give testimony to near first hand experience of how it seems to work almost miraculously? I am of the impression that HGH produced in the body really works as reputed by growth research, so how would the identical hormone made from another source not work or is it simply administered improperly?
the drug is way out of my price range yet I do not envy those that can afford it, Nor am I saddened that I cannot afford it. I have lived the life I want without it and if it was cheaper I might try it in a manner like I do antibiotics when I get pneumonia.
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Rattlesnake Arch
Social climber
Home is where we park it
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P.S. I heard it's relatively expensive. A couple thousand a month. Can anyone verify this? Thanks. Apparently its cheaper in Mexico. Here's how...
"You can also buy HGH in Mexico. The prices are generally lower in Mexico, and HGH from Mexico can be an option worth looking into, especially if you're planning to travel to Mexico anyway. You should be aware that if you live in a state where HGH is a controlled substance, it may be illegal for you to possess HGH that has not been purchased from a legitimate source by prescription. If you are going to purchase HGH in Mexico, it is best to go to a legitimate physician in Mexico for an examination and prescription, then have the prescription filled at a pharmacy or a legitimate authorized pharmaceutical sales agent recommended by the physician."
From http://www.futurescience.com/hgh.html
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Rattlesnake Arch,
thanks for posting the link. There is more here than what I got out of Jaybro's comments!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2012 - 07:52pm PT
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Thanks for all the feedback. Still researching...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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just smoked a roach...kinda high, but for me, it's lame. I have more fun drinking. Just as unhealthy, but I just think more clearly now without the herbs.
That is, when I'm not drunk.....hehe.
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part-time communist
climber
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Toadgas, shouldn't you be off hiking with that topless Russian writer of woeful Heidegger paper? What was her name? PCP? THC? No matter...
awww does wittle sullen boy want ptc to weturn?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Yes Dingus, because you already knew that Lyle Allegedly (edit) died of a lethal mix of HGH and 'roids. A lot of people here are too young to remember that, and less informed than yourself, to boot!
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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HFCS,
I had a little time this AM and I just speed-read thru the wiki article on HGH:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone
It's very well done and from what I can tell from my quick read, very accurate.
The use you are considering is called an "off-label" use. This is the use of an approved and regulated drug for an unapproved indication. Besides being illegal;
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/11/051108084527.htm
the main issue will be that there have never been any real clinical trials done for "anti-aging" use. Clinical trials establish whether the drug is safe (for short term and for long term use) and effective. They also establish the appropriate dose and dose regimen.
I don't have the time to go into a long explanation of my reasoning about it, but if it was me I wouldn't pursue the HGH path. I also would not buy any of the purported HGH releasers. I personally would just follow the path of good diet, lot's of exercise, low alcohol intake, and proper sleep habits.
Best of luck with your research and your decision.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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^^ Words of Widsom ^^
From the link:
"On the contrary, responsibly conducted and peer-reviewed science indicates that HGH could in fact accelerate aging and shorten lifespan. It is associated with very high rates of serious adverse effects, and long-term use could increase one's risk of cancer."
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2012 - 04:52pm PT
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there have never been any real clinical trials done for "anti-aging" use.
It's a shame, ain't it?
^^ Words of Wisdom ^^
We have consensus. :)
Thanks, all.
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Rattlesnake Arch
Social climber
Home is where we park it
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Sly uses HGH. Not your average 65 year old...
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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weschrist,
My limitations are 100% physical.
Too short? Not enough brain cells? You cope with gravity only physically?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2012 - 10:15pm PT
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Yeah, Sly looks good there. (I'm assuming that is an authentic picture and age.)
My biggest concern with Vit T supplement (which perhaps can be gathered from Sly's picture) is that the extra energy including extra strength and power output might lead to increased risk of injury (on aging tissues no longer set up for it).
But I'm pretty guarded about it, intentionally power back some, have my fingers crossed and pray to the ancient Greek Goddess Artemis. So far it's been working.
(Now if only the facial features could be made to look 25 again, eh?)
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Feb 10, 2012 - 10:54pm PT
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your biggest concern with "recreational" T supplementing ('recreational' meaning you are not abnormally low for your age cohort) should be that it fux up your natural production leaving you reliant on supplementing.
Whatever floats your boat, it's your body, just do your research.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 11, 2012 - 12:21am PT
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re: "recreational"
re: "whatever floats your boat"
perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but it sounds like you're bringing a pretty strong personal bias to this discussion. Which is of course your choice.
my interest is optimally maintaining performance in a number of adventure sport activities (which is a large measure of how I personally define quality of life) for as long as I can given goals and circumstances.
would I trade 10 years off the bottom of my longevity for five to ten more years of above-norm pfe and attitude regarding a couple of sports? for me, yes.
is life a crapshoot to an extent, yes.
but maybe these things will be better worked out 100 or 500 years from now, we can hope
and do I think there's enough room in the human condition for more than one way to skin a cat regarding these issues, yes to this also; it's how we ultimately learn what works and what doesn't, as I'm sure you know.
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