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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 27, 2011 - 05:10pm PT
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The bottom line for me is this - making things IN America is BETTER for America.
So how does that kind of thinking apply to exports from the US. Should people in Brazil not buy your US-made product because it isn't made in Brazil?
There is increasing choice in airplanes now. If you want Boeing (the US team, so to speak) to do well, you'd better be willing to buy French wine or Chinese bridges. Or Carabiners
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2011 - 06:44pm PT
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Most of the "Buy USA" crowd are conservatives.
Conservatives are supposed to be into Free Markets.
This seems like a contradiction to me. Isn't insisting on USA-made products an artificial control on a market that, in theory, should be promoting the best product out there?
Easy answer. Because it ain't a free market. We are playing on an un-level field...
EDIT: And 'free-market' refers to domestic free-market capitalism.
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Phil_B
Social climber
Hercules, CA
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Apr 27, 2011 - 06:53pm PT
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fattrad,
For a company with bridge in its name, they don't have any bridges to talk about on their website.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Apr 27, 2011 - 08:00pm PT
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Damn straight the playing field ain't level! And who do you think has a *huge* advantage? Hint: if we closed our border to international trade, none of us would be able to afford our current lifestyles - Not. Even. Close.
And no, I don't think Free Market refers domestically... I think it lives up to its name... anything else is interference by the government!
Bluering, YOU'RE A LIBERAL! Look at you with your long hair and buy-local-instead-of-from-slave-children-in-China ethics. Next you'll be wanting to support local businesses instead of WalMart, and running off to Zurich to protest the WTO.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2011 - 09:06pm PT
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Hint: if we closed our border to international trade, none of us would be able to afford our current lifestyles - Not. Even. Close.
Cleo, I'm referring to unfair trade practices and tariffs. Japan (cars) and China work on an unfair field. We should be making China pay more tariffs on all goods shipped here. And, you betcha, stuff would obviously cost more. It might make it more feasible to keep wages here instead of outsourcing jobs for slave labor.
And Japan makes it very expensive for the U.S. to compete there. There are other factors too, but "fair" is fair.
And yeah, Fatty is right about the Chinese currency too....
EDIT: Next you'll be wanting to support local businesses instead of WalMart, and running off to Zurich to protest the WTO.
You're right about WalMart, I agree. But the WTO thing is an anarchist thing. I don't roll that way. I'd love nothing more than to club some of those idiots like they were baby seals...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2011 - 09:09pm PT
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I think the level of outsourcing America has permitted amounts to free market treason. I think a free market eats its own, every time its permitted.
The definition of Milktoast. Have it both ways.
Got a viable alternative?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2011 - 09:15pm PT
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Tell us of say, three of your specific complaints about the WTO......
Nothing specific about the WTO. They just generally suck.
I was talking about the anarchists who break things any chance they get and prolly don't have jobs.
EDIT:
Brazil???
What, are you my straight man? Brazil levels a heavy import duty on American goods. Most other imports too, that compete with domestic production. Employment and middle class ranks are RISING in Brazil.
This is kinda the point I was making about 'free trade'. I agree Mr. Milktoast.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Apr 27, 2011 - 09:38pm PT
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LOL, perhaps? But what's passive aggressive about checking product ratings before you buy? I mean, I'm not making that up - the Japanese cars run longer, perform better, break down less, use less gas... I did my homework and that's why I bought one. (and they're even Made in the USA!)
Fattrad, I was curious as to your response most of all, and it turns out that you're consistent, rational, and logical and I appreciate that - even if I don't agree with you some of the time. Now if only more right-wingers were like you, (I'm serious!)
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 27, 2011 - 10:07pm PT
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We should be making China pay more tariffs
this is why the 18th century didn't believe in universal male franchise.
except for the Jacobins.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Apr 27, 2011 - 10:09pm PT
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Also, to DMT...
You're right, I'm feeling a bit feisty, I apologize.
And... you're right about your comment on supply lines, I'm indeed worried about issues in the future, but that's quite a complex observation, and one worthy of it's own discussion.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2011 - 10:14pm PT
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The disengenous Mr. Crowley, chops up my words and conveniently pastes them together to suit his agenda. Lame!
That is really sickening, Matt. You know the exact contexts of both of those posts. Unfortunately you stoop to the lowest level to try to slander me.
Does this make you feel like you're 'winning'??? I have news for ya which you'll never understand. It makes you a sad human being. You can't win an arguement so you resort to misappropriation of my words and context.
Nice job. Loser...
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 27, 2011 - 10:43pm PT
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What, are you my straight man?
Apparently. But you're dodging the intent of my question, and you know it.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2011 - 11:03pm PT
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Cleo said;
Next you'll be wanting to support local businesses instead of WalMart, and running off to Zurich to protest the WTO.
And I replied;
You're right about WalMart, I agree. But the WTO thing is an anarchist thing. I don't roll that way. I'd love nothing more than to club some of those idiots like they were baby seals...
In reference to not wanting to go "running of to Zurich" to be an anarchist protester.
and
Crowley says, after that first exchange with Cleo;
Tell us of say, three of your specific complaints about the WTO......
And I reply;
Nothing specific about the WTO. They just generally suck.
I was talking about the anarchists who break things any chance they get and prolly don't have jobs.
Notice how Crowley leaves out some of Cleo's quote, and then puts my exchange with her AFTER my exchange with him to further dilute the context of 2 different posts.
Nice try, as#@&%e!
Crowley's post was this;
Nothing specific about the WTO. They just generally suck.
I was talking about the anarchists who break things any chance they get and prolly don't have jobs.
I agree. But the WTO thing is an anarchist thing. I don't roll that way. I'd love nothing more than to club some of those idiots like they were baby seals...
Matt, you should sign up with Media Matters...
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Apr 28, 2011 - 08:45pm PT
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Aw fuk - you guys could argue over fuking chewing gum.
Hey Steve-O - want something made in the USofA by undereducated, overpaid, vicodin spiking, beer swilling, TV watching numbnuts who barely passed high school - then learn how to forge your own goddamn iron.
Yes - now that you asked - I am in a bad mood.
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froodish
Social climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 28, 2011 - 08:57pm PT
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Not sure why so many fetishize how the dollar trades against other currencies, but for those who are carping about it, where were you in 2001-2008?
(via Barry Ritzhold)
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Apr 28, 2011 - 09:00pm PT
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2001 to 2008?
Spending like a yuppie mofo.
Now I is broke and contrite.
But I got's a lot of weed.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2011 - 09:01pm PT
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Hey Steve-O - want something made in the USofA by undereducated, overpaid, vicodin spiking, beer swilling, TV watching numbnuts who barely passed high school - then learn how to forge your own goddamn iron.
Yes - now that you asked - I am in a bad mood.
Who's the bigot or prejudiced person now? We have prison workers knocking out quality product here!
But to assume manufacturing is all redneck, hillbilies is sad. My factory does quality, high end work. Ask Ksolem, he's used our gear!
And half of my production crew is decended from recent immigrants from Mexico and Vietnam. The purchasing gals are Taiwanese, of course.
The bottom line is that it's a trade imbalance. We need to impose tariffs on the Chiners. CEO's look only at bottom lines to keep their blood-sucking jobs.
Make the trade fair and we get more people staying 'onshore'. This is where Bush and our current Prez fail us. The Congress too!!!!
Frankly, I'm of the opinion that we 'invest in Mexico' for some of our manufacturing base. It's a win-win when you analyze it. But the high-end manufacturing still stays here. Even the resource processing.
How many steel-mill towns have been devastated by outsourcing? And for what?
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Apr 28, 2011 - 09:14pm PT
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Racist????
Yo bro - while you might have been lolling around the second world with your diplomat pater familius or whatever pops did in Italy or wherever I was actually growing up in the DEEP SOUTH during the 1960s while being raised by a BLACK WOMAN while my Mom dealt with cancer.
I have seen every type of racial hatred known to man including a body swinging from a tree.
None of which has jack shyte to do with your inane quest for Amurican made crap under the assumption that it is somehow "mo' better" because some Billy Bob from Stockton laid his hand upon the thingy.
And yes, immigrants usually run circles around our fat stoned self-indulgent asses - I first worked in electronics manufacturing back when Viet boat people where still landing on the beaches of LA. They, like the Salvies, like the Guatos, like the Oaxacans, like the Flips, like ANYBODY NOT NATIVE TO THE US worked - head down and nose to the grindstone. If they f'ed up - it usually turned out to be because someone didn't explain the process clearly enough.
Personally, I'd rather have a crew of "foreigners" who are motivated to make a life for themselves rather than a bunch of spoiled natives waving their "We're Number 1" foam fingers and bitching all day.
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