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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Oct 28, 2010 - 05:00pm PT
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Hey DrF, Couchmaster thinks I am a BushBot Republican.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 28, 2010 - 05:08pm PT
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Everybody already pays for the parks. They don't financially support themselves.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Oct 28, 2010 - 05:09pm PT
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Welcome Dr F to being a Bushbot, screw the poor is our new motto! Woot!
Why shouldn't a person driving a $130,000 Bentley pay exactly the same as a single mother of 3 working 2 jobs to keep a barely running $300 Toyota running?
Screw the poor! Give the rich a free ride!
God Bless us all Tiny Tim!
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Oct 28, 2010 - 05:14pm PT
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Couch are you really that dense or just incredibly obstinate?
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Oct 28, 2010 - 05:15pm PT
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Couch are you really that dense or just incredibly obstinate? Both! Hah hah!
I thought we were in agreement? Screw the poor? Don't take this out of the general fund or increase income taxes to pay for it cause that would be fair?
We don't want or like fair?
We hate the poor?
Together like brothers on this? No? Well, I'm sensing cracks in your facade my brother. We aren't going to make them walk? Tax the sidewalks is out too?
Damn. Are you suggesting that a person driving a $130,000 Bentley should pay exactly the same as a single mother of 3 working 2 jobs to keep a barely running $300 Toyota running? maybe isn't a good thing? What about the parks? Aren't they still more important than people and fairness? What the hell kind of heresey are you pitching now? I hope both you and Sr F stay regressive my brothers.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Oct 28, 2010 - 05:23pm PT
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Weren't we going to be ignoring this? http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=how+does+a+graduated+income+tax+work+and+is+it+fair%3F
Screw the poor, let them fork it over or walk. Parks are more important than people. Keep breeding and sell a kid if you can't pay it. Love it. Bushbot brothers Dr F and Philo 4$evr!
Right on bras! 21 rules! Let's teach the unfairness of life the hard way, right on. We'll start with the $18 and then add the rest of the $hit on later till we squeeze them like oranges heading for juice. F*#k em, teach them to be poor. BAAAAwwwhhhwwww LOL!
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
Oakland
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Oct 28, 2010 - 05:32pm PT
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Grade A example of a thread that was informative (I did not know anything about this prop) and a touch entertaining that managed to devolve into to a useless pissing match within 3 pages. Bravo fellas.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Oct 28, 2010 - 05:44pm PT
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Its a voter initiative
Let the Voters decide
Sorry but I'm for any extra taxes or fees that help the environment
everybody should pay
Yeahhhhh! Bushbots 4 ever! I totally agree with this. No matter what the personal cost to them. Make em pay and make em suffer. Learn the unfairness of regressive tax policies early! Right on! "everybody should pay" I agree and it's only $18 to start but we can get it up there soon. Let em sell a kidney if they need too.
Grade A example of a thread that was informative (I did not know anything about this prop) and a touch entertaining that managed to devolve into to a useless pissing match within 3 pages. Bravo fellas.
...and I totally agree with this too!
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Oct 28, 2010 - 05:49pm PT
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Which is curious as you are the fool who degraded it.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Oct 28, 2010 - 05:59pm PT
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What really pisses me off about these things is that they present it as a binary choice:
Vote for fee/tax increase OR We SHUT IT DOWN.
That's why I'll vote no. It's no different than the bankers in the financial crisis: give us a bailout or we'll blow up the entire economy. They act as if we NEED a bunch of rangers, buildings, facilities, etc to go enjoy the outdoors. They could fire everyone aside from the trash pickup and nobody would nosticeWell, I could personally do without 98% of the rangers, their so-called "services", and every visitor's center ever built. Take a look at how much money they sink into things like the Red Rock visitors' center. Uh, I didn't go there for a museum, I went to recreate in the outdoors. I didn't go to buy an overpriced burger at a concessionaire stand, I can pack a lunch just fine at 1/4 the price thank you.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 28, 2010 - 06:13pm PT
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I kind of agree with couchmaster. This tax will hurt the poor disportionately.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Oct 28, 2010 - 06:13pm PT
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Which is curious as you are the fool who degraded it.
I'd rather think of it as teaching some fools a lesson. I clearly and obviously don't mind helping out the handicap, never have. Moosie is obviously smarter than you guys. But I digress.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 28, 2010 - 06:21pm PT
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Speaking of the poor...
The poor are now having to pay $35 to sleep on the dirt, plus increased entrance fees. Thirty five dollars to camp...geez. Me, I'll sleep in the car along a road before doing that. Poor familes, however, don't really have that option.
The poor used to be able to enjoy camping in state parks as an affordable trip and a way to enjoy nature. The poor are less able to do that now.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 28, 2010 - 06:37pm PT
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That because we are becoming a fee based society. We keep getting further and further from graduated taxes.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Oct 28, 2010 - 06:46pm PT
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DR F Said: This tea bagging thing is so stupid, it makes me sick. They are protesting the lowering taxes of the middle class, and raising the rich's taxes to the age of Reagan They call it redistrubution of wealth
Which you now support Dr F. Welcome to being a teabagger in the worst sense. The fact that you, me and Philo don't see $18 as anything much for us clearly means to you and Philo that it also should mean nothing to anyone. Even to those less fortunate - who don't see that giving up the Morning Mocha is something they can do because they can't f*ing afford a mocha, today- tomorrow, ever. Too proud to beg for help. They're poaching a deer right now to feed the 6 kids cause the crop prices were down and concerned about missing cause a 30.06 bullet costs over a buck. They might as well live on another planet as far as you guys are concerned. Parks? They frikkan live in one, they're too busy working to go to one. But it matters to YOU. $18 is cheap for YOU. Except YOU don't even pay it, so they can't expect YOU to help them out when we force it on them. Tyanny of the majority. All the poor folks can vote against it, but it they only add up to 49 % of the vote, they get screwed.
I'd actually prefer to think as Tea party members as those who oppose onerous government taxes and intervention in their personal life. Perhaps you can grow to support that as well since you appear to have so readily accepted that as a group it's a good idea we should f*k the poor folks to support an idea we have that parks are good. No matter how painful it is to them, since it is so little to us, F* them.
Right? The trust funder should pay the same as the poorest working class member who has a sh#t-hole of a car to commute with. Frankly, I pretty sure that Ronald Regan and George Bush would not like to see that, but lets see if the idiots vote it in anyway. Right on bros! Bushbots 4$ever
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 28, 2010 - 07:00pm PT
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Ease up couchmaster. Philo and others are reasonable people and will respond better to more civil tones.
I think we need to get back to graduated taxes. Prop 13 was meant to address the difficulties of a flat tax, ie property taxes. I think property taxes should be based on more then just the value of the property. They should be based on the ability to pay. All, or at least most taxes should be based on the ability to pay. Even Warren Buffet is against prop 13 because he thinks it gives the wealthy, who can afford to hold onto property, bigger breaks then it does the poor.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Oct 28, 2010 - 07:03pm PT
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Ease up couchmaster. Philo and others are reasonable people and will respond better to more civil tones. Sorry. Yet, the 29,598 posts, most of them theirs spitting white froth and swearwords calling others who dare to disagree with them names, on the thread Dr F started indicating why republicans are so F**ed up seem to disagree with that statement. http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/834614/Why-are-those-Republicans-so-wrong-on-everything
I just went over there to see what Philos views were. Surprising. I should post there sometime. But it's easy for them to talk the talk and NOT walk the walk I suppose.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Oct 28, 2010 - 07:25pm PT
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Tax should be assessed on the user
Like they are for fire and police?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 28, 2010 - 07:26pm PT
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Couchmaster,
I agree that it is fairly common on this forum to get angry about politics. I get fired up myself. I'm just trying to ease folks up a bit. I apologize if I singled you out. Lots of us need to work on that. Not just stopping the cursing, but also work towards speaking respectfully. I have a friend who teaches non violent communication. The more I listen to myself, and read this forum, the more I see the value. Like all rules, I prefer that we don't go with an absolute. Sometimes a bit of anger can help make a point. But when we are always speaking with an angry, or disrespectful tone, then I think we lose the ability to solve anything.
In third grade, the way you won an argument was to shout someone down. If they stopped talking, then you won. That doesn't work very well to really solve issues, and I see California and the entire country facing some serious issues. For awhile there I thought a flat tax was the fairest way to go, but now I see the value of paying according to your ability. Most everyone who works, or has wealth, should have to pay something, but we need to work towards a balanced system.
For example.. with prop 13, this was meant to help those on fixed incomes. It does that, but it also keeps taxes low for the wealthy and for big business. This makes it hard for new businesses to come in and compete, because their property tax is based on current property values, whereas the guy across the street might have very low rates because he bought the property many many years ago, even though the properties are valued equally.
I think that we need to rework a lot of our tax system. Our system is too complex. It hurts small business trying to compete with larger established businesses. It favors the wealthy who can afford all the tax dodges. We need a much simpler system and I hope that some day we find the will to make that happen.
In the mean time, I think it would help if we all practiced some non violent communication. Myself included. ack..
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