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HJ
climber
Bozeman, Montana
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Aug 19, 2010 - 01:38pm PT
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I have an 06 Prius I bought at the beginning of January, 06 new. I live in Montana and do a ton of skiing and iceclimbing. Use this car for road-trips a lot as well. Have 90k on the car. Real lifetime average fuel consumption (actual miles/ actual gas put in) is 45mpg. (Disclaimer: I drive like an idjit. If I drove conservatively I would do better.) Anyway, one thing nobody has mentioned is that the Prius, with it's variable transmission is ultimately low geared. Will crawl up anything. It really is as good as a real low-range 4WD tranny in this respect. The clearance is the only major issue on getting places. Every now and then I have to walk a little further than the real 4WD, but I can almost always get where the Subbys do. Also, on tires, I have street tires for summer and Blizzaks for winter. I have now gone through a set of each. Got new summer tires last year, and will need new winter tires this fall. It's not the most comfortable car to sleep in, but you can buy a lot of comfy camping gear, and use the occaisional motel room and still be way ahead of the game compared to any kind of a van. Hope that's useful.
Edit: LuckyPink, don't know where you are getting you're info. Battery tech is "expensive" in resource use to create, but not as "expensive" environmentally as the petroleum extraction and emissions it offsets. (I'm sure lot's of folks will jump in to argue this point.) The battery itself is actually lots of tiny cells, so the "replacement" cost is that of replacing a few cells that go bad, not an entire giant battery at once. I have heard nothing about needing replacing at the ten year mark. Following the Prius forums, I have heard of no one who has had to replace any cells at all prior to 200K. Also, the gas engine lasts longer as it is always running in its optimum range, so it's less stressed over it's lifetime.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
CA
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Aug 19, 2010 - 02:05pm PT
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Just for the laughs, Yukon Denali XL awd,
with my stbx driving.... 11.4 mpg
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 19, 2010 - 02:51pm PT
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It's funny the same cars come up time and time again for climbers. They tend to be practical, reliable, and efficient. Climbers are pretty smart.
My brother just bought another Prius for his wife, they like his so much. The backseat is HUGE. You have as much leg room as a full size car, and hence more storage space as well, he can put a 10'+ surfboard in the car with the passenger seat down. I wish they made all backseats like that. I don't think the insight has the same amount of room.
It's weird that Japanese cars are now often more reliable and have greater longevity than German cars. Parts cost less. And you can get maintance/repairs/parts anywhere instead of a specialty shop (been there, done with that). Diesel Vdubs are sweet (power and mileage can't be beat), but consider upkeep cost and when you drive a diesel you often want to fill up at every station that has diesel in the boondocks because you don't know if they next station will have it. E.G. Does the gas station on the turn off to Toulumne have diesel?
The Matrix is good if you want to save money upfront and have room to sleep in it. The regular ones aren't much fun to drive, but the xrs is sporty.
Do you have a carmax nearby? I went to carmax and drove all the cars I was interested in the last couple times I needed new cars. Fast way to try different brands in one place. It may be hard to find a vw diesel there though.
Like Dingus I need AWD/4WD. From 8:30 AM to Noon on a powder morning is the most valuable time there is. Not only do I not want to stop to put on chains, but you can go a lot faster with AWD than with chains. So I pay the price the other 99.9% of the time I'm driving. Cars are a bit safer with AWD though too. I have an impreza too. I love it, it's very fun to drive with plenty of torque and a sporty suspension. And the AWD kicks butt in the snow. You really only need AWD if you are consistenly in snow. Clearance is more important for backcountry climbing approaches.
Albany? Two words. Jay Peak. They get as much snow as Colorado. Actually there's lots of more local places to learn like Gore. But you have decent access to Jay, Whiteface, and Killington, probably the best mountains on the East Coast. Plus the ice climbing on the way to Whiteface is good.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Aug 19, 2010 - 03:53pm PT
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My 2 cents worth.
We have owned 2 Prius; our 2005 had 103K totally problem free miles. Volkswagens are not are reliable as Toyotas (imo). Just regular oil and filter changes and not much else. And, there was no sign of any battery issues.
The 2005 was totaled in April when a blind 86 year old plowed into the back of me at 50+ mph. Surprisingly, the car handled the impact well, but my back and neck were something else (still can't climb and only starting to get back to activities). But I digress.
Anyway, we got a new 2010 Prius, which I like even more than the 2005. Very roomy, better power and mpg.
Clearance is very low and you have to drive carefully off road, but it packs tons of stuff and is a great, comfortable road trip vehicle.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Aug 19, 2010 - 04:23pm PT
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36-38 mpg BMW 335 diesel, with 425 pound feet of torque, 44% more torque than the M3. Decent mileage rocket ship.
Oops, wrong web site.
Another happy Prius owner here. Holds tons of gear for it's size. I put snow tires all the way round mine in the winter. As Chris says, with a little care, a lot really, you can take a two wheel drive car almost anywhere.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Aug 19, 2010 - 04:53pm PT
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I've had all three of the prius models. Like the 2010 the best. It is a myth (perpetuated by toyta and the EPA) that they get better mileage in town. With the 2010 I'm pretty consistently low 40s city driving and low to mid 50s on the road. The previous model (a 2006) was about 8% worse. The mileage is surprisingly temperature sensitive being worse when it is cold.
Lots of room, nice car to drive (fires Priest grade great). Lots of weight on the front tires with the electric motor up there in addition to the engine. Handling and traction are excellent.
The one thing that gets in the way sometimes (as others have mentioned) is the low clearance.
I picked up the Thule racks and carry a rocket box. Then there is really lots of room.
Hard to take a crash pad.
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Reggaemylitis
Sport climber
Sacramento, CA
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Aug 19, 2010 - 05:12pm PT
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Ah, don't discount the $10,000 extra I paid for fit, finish, and styling! :)
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Aug 19, 2010 - 07:20pm PT
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My '05 Prius just turned 120K with zero problems. Well not quite, a rear seat window is starting to rattle.
Replaced front brakes and rotors once. OEM tires are crud, Goodyear Triple Assurance are great.
Plenty fast enough to keep up with traffic.
Quite good in snow with the VSC (vehicle stability control) and the Goodyear tires. Low clearance is a problem if there's a few inches of snow that hasn't been plowed. Have never used the chains.
Handles well (with the better tires) on wet or dry roads.
Plenty of room for 2 Tall Ones + all gear for several days. Room for 3 if you don't bring too much stuff.
I think it was Mimi posted pics of her "bed" conversion for the rear compartment with seats folded down.
I also have the Toyota Highlander Hybrid 4WD. A really excellent snow car and about 25MPG.
If I had to choose one, it would definitely be the Prius.
It is a myth (perpetuated by toyta and the EPA) that they get better mileage in town. meaning the Prius.
I get well over 50mpg in freeway stop and go or rolling traffic up to about 45 mph. Nearly as well in town. I've learned to not accelerate rapidly. Which makes no sense in those driving conditions anyway.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Aug 19, 2010 - 09:26pm PT
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I forgot to mention, until 2005, the Jetta TDI wagons were made in Wolfsberg, while the sedans were made in Brazil or Mexico. The fit and finish is much higher quality, as are the parts used.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Aug 19, 2010 - 09:47pm PT
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I love my new Hyundai Santa Fe: AWD and about 24 mpg, with the stronger engine. I had a series of new Explorers from 1991 on, but the mileage figures were awful, and when gas popped up to 4$ a couple of years ago, I decided to downscale.But the Explorers have been ruined ,now that Ford decided to turn them into "crossover" vehicles (junk, as far as I'm concerned). And, yes, the SF is also one of these detestable compromises, but I pretend it isn't!
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Brian
climber
California
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Aug 19, 2010 - 09:54pm PT
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Chris has it right way upthread. MPG over AWD. As I've said on other threads, I lived out of a Mazda 323 for a couple of years and it got me up some pretty surprising "roads." The one or two places it couldn't go in all those years I owned it, I just rode with someone else or rented (e.g., to drive into the Ghost in winter).
Finally, regarding some of the other analysis about MPG upthread, better MPG is not just about saving money, though that's good, but about doing the right thing.
Brian
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storer
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Aug 19, 2010 - 10:40pm PT
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No contradiction here. An AWD is essential on selected trips. For example, up a snowy logging road for backcountry touring because you tried to drive too far up. But then please use your bike as much as possible for shorter trips. On the other hand, The folks who opted for the FWD car may then feel entitled to use their car for short trips but they will burn more fossil overall, I submit.
But wasn't the old VDub a nice solution? If the beetle RWD did get stuck a couple of pushers could usually free it because of its smooth underpan and light weight. I had to do that a few times alone. Pushing on the door jam and jumping in before the bug launched into the canyon. Benighted more than once but always made it.
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johngenx
climber
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May 11, 2012 - 11:02pm PT
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The new 2.0L Subaru Impreza has much better fuel economy than previous Subarus. Might be an option. Not Prius economy, but decent compared to other AWD vehicles...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 11, 2012 - 11:09pm PT
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I stood my ground and now have a car I can sleep in.
Maybe, but not at Camp 4. Site #36 awaits thee at the FaceLift, IIRC.
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Kirkwood, ca
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May 11, 2012 - 11:14pm PT
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AWD is unnecessary in today's world for 99% of people, IF you know how to drive in ice and snow properly. If you are unaware of the laws of physics, AWD might save your life.
I drove my POS hyundai Accent 2wd in Kirkwood for 2 winters, having to commute to south lake twice a week for school....driving in some conditions that the highway patrol tried to convince me to turn around. I once drove at night in a storm down the Carson Pass as the only car to get through, right behind a turbine ice cutter, who cut a tunnel through an avalanche, because I had to be at class the next morning. The pass was closed, but they opened the gate since I waited there for 1.5 hours at 11:30 pm. I routinely passed trucks, Subaru's, and everything else who had slid off the road. I always had my trusty WalMart tire chains ready to throw on, but found them to be mostly annoying. Simple physics folks: do not accelerate or decelerate when going around any corner, and tap brakes on and off on and off for short bursts while descending a icy grade. Downshift. You will be fine.
Ski resorts WANT your POS car to make it, they will plow the road for you. They need your $$.
My car is under that pile of snow. I dug it out and drove to work while sipping coffee.
My car gets at least 33mpg on the highway. AWD is for suckers!
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Kirkwood, ca
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May 11, 2012 - 11:29pm PT
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Yeah that was mellow. I didn't break out my camera during the really intense situations, I had to focus.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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May 11, 2012 - 11:32pm PT
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maybe in some frou-frou California ski town all-wheel drive isn't necessary. But in a place with real winters and sloppy springs, summers, and falls, all-wheel drive is de rigueur.
I used to live in California. If I were still there I'd take clearance over all-wheel drive (but usually if you get something with clearance -- like a Tacoma or Outback -- you get AWD), but all-wheel drive isn't vital.
Now I live in a God-fearing Northern state, have a 15-mile daily commute on city streets and freeways, and wouldn't think of having anything less than all-wheel drive. [full disclosure: I drive an Audi, which has pretty decent mileage along with AWD]
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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May 11, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
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I prefer 4wd no mpg but my wife had Jetta tdi wagon I miss that thing
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 11, 2012 - 11:34pm PT
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Hmm, I hadn't thought about that, but you're (mostly) right. Is it due to planning on Ken's part? We must cross examine him about this, and his secret agenda.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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May 12, 2012 - 12:50am PT
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Since I put a new(to me) head on my Cherokee, I get 4wd AND MPG(well it DID improve).
"New" is Relative. 244,000+ and rollin'.
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