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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 16, 2010 - 01:30pm PT
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I need to get/make one of those things. I hate finding/leaving trash on routes.
There is a metal shop down the street from the Coffee Co. I'll bet they can make me one.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Jan 16, 2010 - 07:15pm PT
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gonamok (Ron) did you get my e-mail?
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Jan 16, 2010 - 10:01pm PT
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mark, i was going to say i could sell and send you some, but looks like base has you covered. believe me, you do not want to make them as the swedger alone cost some bucks, and it is nice to leave it to the experts. you only need a dozen for tribal rite anyway.
i get mine from klaus, although i had to meet him at his work in sf, kind of a hassle, but worth it. shipoopoi
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Gene
Social climber
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Jan 16, 2010 - 10:24pm PT
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No need to build a factory if you only need a few.
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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Jan 17, 2010 - 03:15am PT
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That snake picture is cool! I have three kingsnakes in my office. I am always spooked that one will get out and freak the neighbors.
I used to do these really ugly oilfield jobs. I was on a survey crew once for seismic lines down in the tick infested jungle along the red river. We were working behind a dozer that was cutting the line for equipment to get through.
I had always thought that the den of poisonous snakes thing was a myth, but the driver comes back one afternoon and tells us he turned over a huge dead stump stuffed with copperheads. It was blast furnace summer hot. I figured they just denned up in the winter...but nooooo..
We get up there and no lie, the things were everywhere. A lot of them got whacked by the bulldozer, but there must have been twenty or thirty of them crawling around in a daze.
Copperheads are kind of secretive and lazy, so we just worked around them, tossed them out of the way with a long stick. They were all gone the next day. One of the freakiest things I ever saw.
They aren't feared so much around here. The bite isn't nearly as bad as a rattlesnake or cottonmouth.
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safl
Trad climber
Wahoo, NE
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Jan 17, 2010 - 10:37am PT
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Snakes are cool.
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salad
climber
Escondido
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Jan 18, 2010 - 09:47pm PT
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base thats huge
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2010 - 09:52pm PT
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I just had Vinnie down the street at Schlossers Metal works make a butterknife for me. It took him all of one minute to do it.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jan 18, 2010 - 09:58pm PT
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Mark
I might have one or two.
I'll have to dig it out, I think it's in my garage.
PM me with your address and I'll send them your way
once I find it/them.
SW
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 19, 2010 - 12:04am PT
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Those guys at Schlossers are great. They did all the steel components for the structural retro-fitting of the Wind Chapel and did a good job of it.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Jan 20, 2010 - 01:26pm PT
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Interesting to see Bridwell’s Butterknife; hadn’t seen one before. We were talking one time and it turns out that we both came up with the same idea for a head-cleaning tool, although that one looks a little too blunt, as far as the point/radius.
I started out with a couple of half-inch cold chisels that were sitting around in the ASCA stash; Greg had no use for them so he gave them to me. I took them to a grinder and eventually came up with the Butterknife shape.
Mark, that one looks pretty good, but it could have a larger radius. Take a look at the one that Mike and Gabe made, in the thread that Mike linked above – that one has a larger radius. The tip has to be pointy enough to “stab” a deadhead; the Butterknife works mainly by leverage and it’s not a scraping tool. If the radius isn’t gradual enough, it’s tougher to get the point to sink into a deadhead, prior to using leverage to remove it. Maybe I need to attempt to draw some diagrams to post…
EDIT: It’s tough to see much in my crappy photo of the Butterknife that I made (posted in Mike’s thread). The thing is thrashed – it’s dull and it’s bent, from a lot of use on Zodiac during the cleanup. This is a 1/2” cold chisel – it might be better to use a 5/8” chisel instead, as it will be much less likely to bend with heavy use.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2010 - 02:43pm PT
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Minerals, thanks, I'll get Vinnie on that right away.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Jan 20, 2010 - 06:55pm PT
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Here are a couple of rough diagrams that (I hope) show why the shape of the curve on the Butterknife is important.
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The first diagram (left) shows two Butterknives – one with a small radius and the other with a larger radius. In order to “stab” a deadhead, the Butterknife needs to be driven behind/into the deadhead, usually from below, as roughly indicated by the direction of the large arrow on top. As you can see from the diagram, a larger radius allows the Butterknife to be driven into a deadhead at an angle that is closer to parallel with the face of the rock (large arrow). A smaller radius does not allow the Butterknife to be driven behind the deadhead as well because the angle at which it is driven is farther from parallel to the rock. The lower Butterknife (larger radius) will “stab” a deadhead much better and will have a better bite in order to pry the deadhead out. The small arrows indicate initial hammering direction on the Butterknife.
The second diagram (right) shows stage two of deadhead removal. Once the Butterknife is driven securely behind/into the deadhead, hammering inward (black arrow) on the end of the Butterknife will pry the deadhead out with leverage (red arrow).
Although we have been discussing the removal of deadheads, heads that still have a cable (old or new) can also be removed with a Butterknife. This is recommended over the use of a funkness device because removal with the use of a Butterknife is less damaging to the rock/placement than using a funkness device, which will often remove small pieces of rock, in addition to the head… if the cable doesn’t rip first.
EDIT: So, I guess with that said, it would be more appropriate to refer to the tool as a “steak knife.” I called it a “butterknife” because it removes deadheads so well, it’s as easy as cutting through soft butter.
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Footloose
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
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Jan 22, 2010 - 04:30pm PT
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Great thread.
So the bestest place to buy the copper ferrules
nowadays is where?
Home Depot and Lowes have the Al but not the Cu.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
obsessively minitracking all winter at Knob Hill
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Jan 22, 2010 - 04:37pm PT
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Ya know, Mark for that rig you've got the topo for in the butterknife photo you'll need like 5 heads, total. We climbed it last year and placed exactly one, which we left.
Cleaning the whole thing out, now that would be a different story. And a major project- there's quite a few head ladders in those shallow corners.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2010 - 05:03pm PT
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Rhodo-Router,
Yeah, I know, I want to be prepared and don't want to leave any trash of my own up there. If I have time I'll do some clean up work also.
have any tips for Tribal Rite?
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
obsessively minitracking all winter at Knob Hill
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Jan 22, 2010 - 05:19pm PT
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Check your email, Mark.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Jan 22, 2010 - 05:37pm PT
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Hardware store prices for copperhead supplies ain’t so great, and who knows what they are selling. Footloose, check your ST email.
Re. Tribal
Not sure if the rivet ladders have been replaced, but if not, I wouldn’t jump around on those rivets too much. Kirk (Skully) pulled two of ‘em out with his fingers while cleaning – they just fell out when he pulled the keyhole hanger off! Eeeek! Remember that, Skully?
Mark, I’ve got some more photos to post for ya. Don’t have a guidebook handy, but is that loose block at the end of the first pitch of Tribal still there (above the Boot)? It wasn’t too bad on thin Aliens. Think we had some haulbag issues on the last pitch of Tribal, where it traverses right, into WOEML. And, don’t miss the “Killer Bivy Rivet” out right of the belay, I think at the end of “Long and Steep”, which is the pitch after “The Carrot” pitch. There is an expando move or two as you start on the Carrot itself. “Killer Ledge” (below “The Carrot”) is really neat too.
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