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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 21, 2019 - 08:59am PT
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Donini said:
I tried to point out in my post that there are grey areas. Unless I can make my own judgements concerning them I am not going to make the effort to post threads meant to inform people about places not named California and, hopefully, to inspire some exploration. +1
I reiterated your question about the group photo to RJ.
I think he just needed to take a break and hopefully will get back to us?
I also added one: I took some screenshots of Supertopo as part of a thread saving tutorial. Supertopo is copyrighted, and so I was wondering if my reproduction was an infringement. I am thinking they might make an allowance, because it's NOT something they would probably come after me for on their own accord, but I don't want to make any assumptions.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Apr 21, 2019 - 09:42am PT
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...and this is the last one, I will stop writing the annoying truth: This is the "do not upload images you don't own on SuperTopo" political thread...
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 21, 2019 - 09:43am PT
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Never stop communicating truth.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 21, 2019 - 11:01am PT
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I think I have complied to the rudimentary requirement that otherwise copyrighted material has been expunged from my uploaded photo area. It is not clear in some of those cases whether or not a copyright still applied, or ever applied to the material. Much printed ephemera does not have an explicit copyright statement. In those cases I deleted the image, which I think is the express desire of the SuperTopo management. I can claim copyright to all of the images that are now stored in my account.
Is there some tool to verify that I have complied?
On the other hand, in all images I have made, and images made of me by others, I have left in my account. I am not in the habit of asking for an expression of consent which would meet the legal definition of documenting consent, for a large number of people who populate the images I have made.
Is there some criteria that the STForum management would apply in this case to determine compliance with the current policy?
When people appear in my images who do not want them shared, and have asked for them to be deleted, I have complied. However, this does not represent a thorough vetting of the images with the people. Should I delete all images for which an explicit and verifiable statement of consent has not been made?
Finally, I have images of places and things which are entirely permitted in the case of personal use, but would fall under the category of "commercial" use if the sites they are posted acquire a financial/commercial benefit by displaying them. For instance the policy on "Filming" in the parks varies in detail from park to park. The policies of each of the parks is on the web, though there is some ambiguity, see for instance, the Yosemite National Park page:
https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/filming.htm
which both promotes the personal activity but does not address the public sharing of these images. For instance, is there a sensitivity for sharing images/videos of cultural artifacts publicly? It is clear that commercial activities would be reviewed, to quote: "Projects that require environmental evaluation, cultural resource review, or Native American consultation must be submitted no less than 90 days before the start of proposed activities, and may require additional time, dependent upon project complexity."
I have not reviewed my images to determine if they would fall inside this criteria, should I?
There is material available under Creative Commons rules, what is the STForum policy regarding the reproduction of this material?
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Apr 21, 2019 - 11:16am PT
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Never stop communicating truth.
Communicating truth? I mean where does this question lead us: How many 14-ers have Paul Ryan climbed?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 21, 2019 - 11:49am PT
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The question is: what are the requirements of obtaining "individual consent"? requirements which would withstand challenge of the STForum policies.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 21, 2019 - 11:58am PT
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"I mean where does this question lead us"
Laughing hardly.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 21, 2019 - 01:30pm PT
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Never read the terms carefully. My bad.
"User Content" means any text, music, sound, photos, video, evaluations, ratings, or graphics which you or other users of the Service create, upload, download, transmit, store, or appearing on the Service. User Content is publicly-viewable on the Service. You agree that you are solely responsible for your User Content.
You agree not to post, upload to, transmit, distribute, store, create or otherwise publish or send through the Service any of the following:
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User Content that may impinge upon the publicity, privacy or data protection rights of others, including pictures or information about another individual where you have not obtained such individual's consent
...
So, if I happen to know that Poster1 and Poster2 and I all attended the same university, I may not divulge that information without first obtaining the consent of Poster1 and/or Poster2., right?
Probably wouldn't even matter if it was Poseur1 and Poseur2 now would it?
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Apr 21, 2019 - 01:44pm PT
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... and they must of course have a chance to change their mind. You will need a written and signed statement. Much good food for American lawyers...
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 21, 2019 - 02:30pm PT
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Your first link ,man ,that is sad ,really.
HS.
See ,it is more than just butthurt. That takes some.
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Scott Thelen
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
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Apr 21, 2019 - 02:54pm PT
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Thank you !!!!
That is why I visit this site climbing
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 21, 2019 - 02:56pm PT
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Oh, now that's just WRONG, thebravecowboy. Now I'm depressed. Thanks a lot.
I hear that there's a medicine for this new depression, but some of the side-effects include "involuntary muscle movements that may be permanent," and, of course, "depression, suicidal thoughts," etc... leading to the kicker: "death." So, to fix the depression you've just plunged me into, I have to risk death and will be almost certainly brain-damaged.
Well, I guess that, except for the new jerking and spasming (that may be permanent), nobody will notice.
Again, thanks a bunch!
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 21, 2019 - 04:34pm PT
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Like you said TBC,try to avoid the drama,man.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Apr 21, 2019 - 04:53pm PT
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naw dude, it's high time I hide the goods anyway. For folks with cojones like Cmac to shy away from webmeistering politically-charged material is fine. And it is likewise fine for those of us that disagree with the decision to respond in kind.
MB1 and Willbeer, It is nice to know you folks even just on the site. I am stoked on your adventures upcoming willbeer, and I look forward to seeing more of your world-class windmill-tilts on choss MB1. I am kinda bent, obviously, about the poor decision by site management to limit our opportunity to see how you folks might discuss and reason through issues of a political nature upon which you do not agree. I found it charming, the old school crustiness of this site and the non-climbing discussion herein was a big part of the draw for me. This included copyrighted memes etc.
For me this is all wrapped up in politics, all of it: the new-routing and the choss-scouting and the route-naming, etc. It's fine if ST does not want to host political material or copyright material. Some sites, like Widefetish, will be interested in both my unbridled political vitriol as well as the pics of the (rarity of rarities, for me at least) world-class steep splitter granite handcrack/OW that I opened up two days ago. And that's fine. I'd rather share my stuff and interact with Pyro over there and see his Make America White Again shtick than to deal with a bunch of neutered apolitical BS here.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 21, 2019 - 04:59pm PT
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I am going to second Tarbusters advice earlier in this thread and say keep your stuff here,ride it out,let’s see what happens.
This has been a special place.
Btw,WE have a lot to lose without you here.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 21, 2019 - 06:05pm PT
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I hear ya, TBC, and thanks for sharing. Seriously.
I think that wilbeer is on the right track. I'll see how things play out. Frankly, I think that management is trying to figure things out. My guess is that within a month or so a new normal will take hold, and we'll adapt.
No babies with bathwater, my friend!
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RJ Spurrier
SuperTopo staff member
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Apr 21, 2019 - 06:09pm PT
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There have been a number of posts requesting clarification on whether specific images comply with the SuperTopo Terms of Service.
The idea of asking for a judgment on a specific image is completely understandable. If you are not sure, why not ask SuperTopo to make a call on your image?
At the risk of offending some members, I'm going to answer by explaining why we aren't able, and are actually not even willing, to provide case-by-case judgment on whether a specific image complies with our Terms of Service:
 The Rules are in our Terms of Service -- some of you have expressed confusion about what the rules are for image uploads. The rules we ask of you to use this site and upload images are in our Terms of Service. Providing a short-hand explanation of our Terms of Service could easily mistate those rules. So, we're not going to do that. Please refer to our Terms of Service if you are not sure what our rules are.
More than 200,000 Images -- there are just a ton of images uploaded to SuperTopo. Every one of them has a unique story in terms of copyright use rights. The idea that we would research and comment on the copyright history of even a small faction of those images is simply impractical in terms of cost and time.
We don't have the Context -- you should know whether you own or have the rights to your images. If you aren't sure you own or have the rights to a certain image, then please don't upload it to SuperTopo (or delete it if you uploaded it in the past). We don't want you to proceed with uploading an image that you don't own or have the rights to, or for which you think might infringe on someone else's intellectual copyright or other intellectual/privacy rights. If you aren't sure, then please don't upload it (or delete it now if you uploaded it in the past).
I understand this refusal to provide case-by-case verification of your image questions is not what some of you hoped for. And, I can appreciate that it may come off as cold and harsh, as well as not as helpful as you'd like. Sorry about that.
SuperTopo has never allowed in our Terms of Service the uploading of images that infringe on the copyrights of others to be uploaded on the site. If you think your image may not comply with our Terms of Service, then please don't upload it (or please immediately delete it if it was previously uploaded).
I am hopeful you can understand our position.
rj
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Apr 21, 2019 - 06:46pm PT
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I feel that the baby with the bathwater approach is warranted here: at one point I saved and reposted (with sT hosting) some hilarious but totally copyright infringing material that Bachar had on his ST stuff. That bachar got all that stuff nuked is a real shot across the bow, and I think tk be safe i will just pull my personal TR and general rock climbing stoke stuff off the site, at least in terms of images and contributions other than rare "attaboy" or tip of the hat kinda stuff.
WRT ST in the larger space of web climbing history, beta, stoke, fora: It's one thing to age gracefully, another completely to lose your sh#t like an old formerly genteel bloke without an umbrella. All of a sudden this old dude is kneeling in runoff on the sidewalk in the rain scrabbling for an umbrella in his reach...that was never there to begin with. It is ugly and it is sad and I am not sure where ST is trying to land in the webscape of climbing but it seems like maybe some blokes are not worth trying to help along at some point, nor is there much benefit to sticking it out and doing the right karmic thing only to get stuck with some demented moldy old limey.
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