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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Nov 14, 2012 - 10:56pm PT
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Whale of a dishonorable lie, more like it.
I don't think the Chief is lying about what he did in the Navy, but that doesn't mean that he knows anything about global warming.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Nov 14, 2012 - 11:00pm PT
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A deeper snowpack doesn't mean that winter is shorter or longer or that the average winter temps aren't higher or lower.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Nov 14, 2012 - 11:01pm PT
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I'll look for you next time I watch Top Gun, Chief.
Top Gun
And flight deck operations are a world very familiar to Poedtke, who spent more than a dozen years of his Naval career on four aircraft carriers as a Naval Aviation Bosun’s Mate, achieving the rank of Chief, he was in charge of firefighting teams in one of the most dangerous jobs on the planet: launching and recovering aircraft at sea.
One of his crews won top honors for firefighting four years in a row. And you might not have met him personally, but if you’ve seen major films such as “Top Gun” or “Hunt for the Red October,” you’ve actually seen Poedtke and his team in action.
“I was serving on the U.S.S. Enterprise when those scenes were made,” Poedtke recalls. “That’s me and my crew in the first four minutes of ‘Top Gun.’ I’m the guy putting an A-7E (Corsair fighter plane) on Cat (Catapult) 2.”
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 14, 2012 - 11:02pm PT
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Chief is wrong, he isn't a skeptic: he's just obstinate.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Nov 15, 2012 - 12:22am PT
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When the snow flies for over NINE months outta the year, that means what
It means that we're getting more snow because thanks to warming snow that would have gone the NW is coming to us. Enjoy it.
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 15, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
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Strange that the measurement data look different than they usually do.No peak at all around 1998.
Do you have a peer reviewed source for that figure or at least an explanation of what is shown?
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Norte_Caroliña_Climber
Gym climber
BigWall Baller From the Holler
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Nov 15, 2012 - 02:05pm PT
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Me bigum Chief. Me no believe in Science Man. Me ride bigum boat with heap big plane, all design with no help of science.
All design by fire-put-em-out braves like me, no scam science, grandfather in sky and eagle spirit designum wings, heap smart sqauw designum electronics use throwing bones no use science. So say me, bigum Chief Chihuahua.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Nov 15, 2012 - 04:41pm PT
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If I can play psychologist too, I don't think Chief suffers from low self-esteem. Instead, the reverse.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Nov 15, 2012 - 04:52pm PT
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Warming brings the snow down from the NW?
I don't know the details of it all, but we at Tahoe seem to get the most snowfall when the storms blow in from the mid pacific and not from the north. The warmer air to the south picks up more moisture then mixes with the cold jetstream that moves the storms in to the area. When the jetstream is coming from further north, the air is drier and we get less snow.
The position of the jetstream changes with changes in atmospheric and ocean temperatures. The amount of moisture that can be held in a storm is directly related to the temperature of the air which is affected by temperature of the ocean. These things are true regardless of their being man made climate change.
Temperature changes of the entire earth can manifest themselves in less than obvious ways to a layman. Global warming can bring lessen snowfall to an area to the north while the area to its south gets more. In other places, they might get more rain than before while others will get drought.
Dave
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 15, 2012 - 04:53pm PT
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That being said, I don't think that every law coming down the pike to "control the warming" makes sense, nor do I think that man is the main reason we have cyclical warming/cooling cycles on the earth.
Burchey, try reading back through the non-chiefified parts of this thread. I don't think you'll find anyone, anywhere claiming that every law makes sense, or that man is the main reason for cyclical warming and cooling. With some reading you could get a better sense of what scientists actually do think, and maybe enter a discussion that is not about straw men.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 15, 2012 - 04:59pm PT
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Here in New England the ski industry is well aware of how their winters are changing -- becoming warmer but more importantly shorter. Snowmaking helps compensate so long as temperatures stay below freezing, but winter rains can mess up weeks of hard work, or prematurely end the season.
I was interviewed by a writer doing a story about this last week. One dimension is that the step-pause-step pattern of 20th century warming affected how the historical ski industry developed.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Nov 15, 2012 - 05:07pm PT
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...nor do I think that man is the main reason we have cyclical warming/cooling cycles on the earth.
It is very possible that current trends are caused by things other than man and C02 in the atmosphere. Then again, It is a scientific fact that C02 and other gases do cause a change to the way the atmosphere transmits light and heat. The way C02 and other gases behave is not just speculation or theory any more than the reason for the blue sky is a theory.
Simple logic would then tell us that if C02 is actually a "greenhouse gas" and that we are increasing the C02 in the atmosphere, then the earth will get hotter.
Scientists disagree with each other about how much and what effect it has. I don't think that any rational person who understands the physics of gasses and light/head transmission would debate that increased C02 in the atmosphere is a good thing.
The problem with the whole debate is that ordinary folks don't understand the physics of it and also that ordinary folks will reject everything that a scientist says as soon as it is beyond their own understanding. Recent prison sentences for geologists shows how ignorant and stupid ordinary people can be.
So who here is for imprisoning scientists and who here thinks that maybe, just maybe, the 329 billion tons of carbon dioxide have been poured into the atmosphere from burning fossil fuels since 1750, is a bad thing [1]?
Dave
[1] http://onlyzerocarbon.org/carbon_dioxide.html is probably a bias site but 1/10 of that numbers still seems like a lot. Forest fires can contribute that much although carbon is sequestered by teh trees until they burn making that contribution possibly negligible because of the balance (http://www.geotimes.org/nov07/article.html?id=WebExtra111207.html);
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 15, 2012 - 05:37pm PT
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Quite interesting how Chiloe never brings these weather pattern "forcing"factors to bear.
Rick Poedtke ("The Chief") posts yet another false claim.
Just f'rinstance, two paragraphs from one paper:
THE NAO AND WEST GREENLAND CLIMATE
The North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) refers to a large-scale alternation of atmospheric mass between the Icelandic Low and the Azores High pressure centers, most pronounced in wintertime (Hurrell, 1995; Dickson et al., 1996). Together with the better-known El Niño/Southern Oscillation (ENSO), the NAO explains much of the interannual variability in worldwide weather and climate (Hurrell and van Loon, 1997). Calculations based on differences between historical air-pressure measurements from Lisbon, Portugal (or alternatively, the Azores or Gibraltar) and Stykkishólmur, Iceland yield an NAO index extending back into the 19th century (Hurrell, 1995). Analyses of ice cores, tree rings and other proxies have found long-term evidence of decadal-scale climatic cycles around the North Atlantic, although their relationship to the modern NAO remains problematic (Schmutz et al., 2000).
Positive or high-NAO conditions classically involve a low-pressure anomaly centered on Greenland, with a zonal high-pressure anomaly across the Atlantic to its south, and strong westerly winds in between. Surface winds tend to be northerly over Greenland and eastern Canada, bringing down cold Arctic air. Conversely, negative or low-NAO conditions involve higher pressure over Greenland and lower pressure to the south. Surface winds tend to be southerly and air temperatures warmer over Greenland and eastern Canada. Figure 2 graphs the Lisbon–Iceland winter NAO index over 1900–2001. NOA index values in Figure 2 reflect the difference of normalized (relative to 1864–1983) sea level pressures between Lisbon, Portugal and Stykkishólmur/Reykjavík, Iceland, averaged for the months of December through March. These data cover winters from 1899/1900 through 2000/2001. Also shown are the three-year running means. The most extreme and persistent negative phase occurred during the 1950s and 1960s. After 1970, NAO behavior shifted into a cyclical, persistent and extreme positive phase. Anomalous negative conditions interrupted this positive phase in the winters of 1995–1996 and 2000–2001.
source: Hamilton, Brown & Rasmussen (2003)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 15, 2012 - 05:50pm PT
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Burchey: ...nor do I think that man is the main reason we have cyclical warming/cooling cycles on the earth.
No one anywhere is saying man is responsible for "cyclical warming/cooling cycles on the earth". What is being said, is man is now significantly involved in how those cycles play out.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 15, 2012 - 05:58pm PT
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What is being said is man is now significantly involved in how those cycles play out.
Yes
Mankind now has developed the technology to alter the weather to some degree.
Unfortunately mankind is to stupid too do it right.
Also thru the industrialization of the world we've altered the weather.
Industrialization of the world, "the iron age" is due to more of mankind's stoopidity.
Mankind is not very intelligent when they theorize and speculate on what is good and what is bad because of the bottom line ....
Mankind is stupid when acting independent of it's true nature ........
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 15, 2012 - 05:59pm PT
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And, back on the snow topic, here's a graphic tracking the number of ski areas, either tiny (non-chairlift) or at least somewhat larger (chairlift), in NH through the 20th century.
source: Hamilton, Rohall, Brown, Hayward & Keim (2003)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 15, 2012 - 06:23pm PT
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I see Crotched Mountain has an active website and so must still be in business (I lived in Francestown for a couple of years).
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 15, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
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False:
My Point.
Here, I'll quote you again, to show exactly what your "point" was that I responded to:
False:
ADO
PDO
NAO
AO
Quite interesting how Chiloe never brings these weather pattern "forcing" factors to bear. Hmmmmm.
False:
Yur paper concerns the menial little podunk NH hills.
Didn't even look at it, did you? Try again, what's that NAO passage from?
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Norte_Caroliña_Climber
Gym climber
BigWall Baller From the Holler
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Nov 15, 2012 - 07:23pm PT
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Go easy on him, how could he know that New Hampshire ain't in Greenland? I don't imagine they teach a lot of geography in firehose-jockey school.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 15, 2012 - 07:59pm PT
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healyje:
I see Crotched Mountain has an active website and so must still be in business
Yep, Crotched Mountain is still there. But King Ridge, where I used to ski with my daughter, is gone. And Mt Whittier along the way to N Cornflake, or Highlands along the way to Cannon.
There's a cool, bittersweet website -- NELSAP, New England Lost Ski Areas Project, "preserving the history of 599 lost ski areas." NELSAP (and personal experience) was our inspiration for writing that NH paper.
http://www.nelsap.org/
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