US national policy issues looming after healthcare?

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Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 16, 2017 - 09:32pm PT
In an earlier post, there was an assertion that we needed a lot more physicians, a position with which I took exception. Today, there was an opinion essay on the subject in Journal of the AMA (JAMA). It's behind a paywall, but some excerpts:


On the supply side, are there too few physicians? A simple calculation estimating the number of physicians needed to care for all US residents suggests no physician shortage.

The United States currently has more than 900 000 active physicians. Of these, 441 735 are primary care physicians and 484 384 are specialists. Approximately 12% of primary care physicians work part time, leaving slightly more than 388 000 full-time primary care physicians. Of these, nearly 80 000 are pediatricians.

According to recommendations from the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, the average physician panel size—the number of unique patients under the care of an individual physician—should be between 1500 and 2000. A recent Medical Group Management Association survey of primary care physicians found that the median panel size was 1906 and the average was 2184.

Conservatively, if each of the 388 000 full-time primary care physicians cares for an average of 1500 patients, they could care for an estimated 583 million people. Today, there are 240 million adults in the United States.

Even at the low panel size of 1500 patients, all adults could be cared for by 160 000 primary care physicians; at a panel size of 2000 patients, the United States would require an estimated 120 000 full-time primary care physicians.

Similarly, the 73 million US children younger than 18 years could be cared for by an estimated 49 000 pediatricians, assuming that each provides care for 1500 patients, or by an estimated 36 500 pediatricians with panel sizes of 2000 patients. Add to these conservative calculations the care provided by the more than 50 000 part-time primary care physicians and there seems a significant surplus, rather than a shortage, of full-time primary care physicians.

Can Physicians Care for All Patients in the United States?

Another way of determining if there are enough physicians is to approach the issue from the demand side. Each year, there are 930 million US physician visits, 54.6% (507 million) of them to primary care physicians. If each primary care physician sees patients in 30-minute appointments for 6 hours a day (12 appointments per day) to ensure patients are thoroughly examined and visits are not rushed, then 43 million primary care physician workdays per year are needed (507 million visits divided by 12 visits per day). If physicians work an average of 200 days per year, then an estimated 215 000 active, full-time primary care physicians would be needed for all the primary care office visits in the United States. That number is nearly identical to the estimated 209 000 internists, family physicians, and pediatricians (160 000 + 49 000) needed based on the conservative panel size calculations.

From either a supply or a demand perspective, enough physicians are available for all US patients. Given this balance, and assuming these estimates are accurate, there is no obvious physician shortage.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 17, 2017 - 08:16am PT
Ken .... good article, your union at work. Gee-wiz.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 17, 2017 - 08:36am PT
here is no obvious physician shortage.

Especially at most country clubs! On the other hand, when I moved my mom near me I had to find new docs for her. I went online to peruse those that take her insurance. All I can say is

"Can I buy a vowel?"

I would conservatively estimate that 75% of the docs offered didn't attend a med school that I would put in the same league as UCLA or USC.
monolith

climber
state of being
May 17, 2017 - 08:52am PT
Putin offers to help Trump by providing details of the meeting.

So completely bizarre.

This 'winning' is to much to take. Please, can we lose a little some of the time?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 17, 2017 - 08:57am PT
Locker, there's a shortage of qualified physicians.
Maybe yer happy going to see Dr Demento but I'm knott!
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Topic Author's Reply - May 17, 2017 - 09:08am PT
What field that requires skill is not afflicted with a shortage of good practitioners and a bunch of bench-warmers? This circumstance seems to be a basic axiom of humanity.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
May 17, 2017 - 09:44am PT

The current American CEO, Trump, is an arrogant, aggressive man who believes what he himself feels and thinks. His preferred position seems to be American dictator. He is doing his best to undermine American media and American democratic institutions. He will have a hard time undermining American media, but if he is given one more period (Americans love guns and shooting, so he will need a popular war), then he can do a lot of damage to American democratic institutions...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 17, 2017 - 10:03am PT
These are valid points on the issue of accessibility to "well trained" physician. However, be cautious of your bias. The absolute smartest physician I've ever encountered, trained in India. The wisest, is a black man.

There is also an illusion created by some physicians "busy-ness". As is true with many workers, where one is in charge of the volume of business, there is a tendency to increase the business to fill the time available.

So let's say a person takes a longstanding prescription of thyroid hormone. How often do they need to have their blood tested and see a doc? Generally, once a year. But I've seen docs drag them back every other month, and will not refill their prescriptions without the visit. The unwitting patient thinks of that as "thorough". It is generally referred to as "churning".
It's an extraordinarily risk-free way to boost income.

VERY common, particularly among those with light schedules.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 17, 2017 - 10:06am PT
Putin offers to provide Congress with details of Trump disclosures to Russian envoys

The provocative offer was met with scoffs on Capitol Hill as lawmakers considered the idea that the Kremlin could help shed light on the disclosures of reportedly highly classified intelligence.

This is extraordinary!

Can you imagine, if he supplies something that reinforces Trump, Trump owes him!

If he supplies something that hurts Trump, he has destabilized the US Gov't.

Without firing a shot!

Will anyone fall for the trap?
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
May 17, 2017 - 10:23am PT
Yup, it's called Party First!!

They consider Putin their Bro now...it's all good!
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
May 17, 2017 - 10:41am PT
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 17, 2017 - 11:00am PT
And rural schisthole states like Idaho don't attract as many doctors, per this U.S.A Today ranking that has Idaho as the 4th worst state for doctors per 100,000 population. Mississippi of course is the worst & the best ratio state, Massachusetts, has nearly twice as many doctors per 100,000 as Idaho does.

4. Idaho
> Doctors per 100,000 people: 172.5
> Medical students per 100,000 people: N/A
> Pct. without health insurance: 17.7% (11th highest)
> Life expectancy: 79.2 years (20th highest)

Although Idaho's doctor shortage is among the worst in the nation, the state's lack of medical residents is potentially just as problematic. There are just 3.9 medical residents per 100,000 people in Idaho — the second-worst figure in the U.S. and well below the national figure of 35.8 per 100,000. The Pending retirement of doctors in the state is also an issue. In a report on Idaho's doctor shortage, NPR noted that 41.5% of physicians in the state are 55 and older. Idaho is one of just a few states that has no accredited medical school.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2012/10/20/doctors-shortage-least-most/1644837/

Studly

Trad climber
WA
May 17, 2017 - 11:11am PT
This explains what happened to Americas health care system. A must read. Wow, everyone was asleep at the wheel, and old Tricky Dick slipped one by us all along with Edgar Kaiser of Kaiser Permanente. I never knew this....unbelievable.
https://www.sott.net/article/351109-Thanks-Nixon-Before-1973-it-was-against-US-law-to-make-a-profit-off-of-health-care

We need to wake the f*#k up and go after these criminal organizations. It basically makes all other discussions moot. There is no reason to have private HMO's. This is evil and greed on a scale that's hard to imagine.
monolith

climber
state of being
May 17, 2017 - 01:37pm PT
As usual, SOTT is not a dependable source of information.

Private, for profit health insurance companies started in the 1940s.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/2007/03/a_short_history_of_health_care.html

Studly

Trad climber
WA
May 17, 2017 - 01:53pm PT
As usual, the truth hurts. SOTT is a releiable source for news, you just can't have your head to far up your a*#. According to your article, it all started back in the early day, and your article does not even mention the HMOA 73 legislation, so right there I call Bullsh#t. It is all directly attributable to the legislation Nixon signed in 1971, and if that act was revoked, and healthcare was made not for profit, and anyone associated with healthcare had to work for the care of the patient, and not for profit, then we would be far better off as a country. There can be no question on that whatsoever.
Just because you find a article on Chatterbox, which you did Monolith, doesn't make it correct or accurate. Its another smoke screen article that does not delve into the root of the problem, and tries to take issue somewhere else, then the exact cause. I would not be surprised if the author of your article is paid by a HMO for writing it.
monolith

climber
state of being
May 17, 2017 - 02:48pm PT
You'll find lots of links showing the history of for profit health insurance long before Nixon.

Dig in there and step away from 'The Truth' type sources. You've been pushing Sott for some time now. It's just plain creepy when you look into it. (The founders talking to aliens and channeling with their future self)

And yes, it would be nice to end the for profit part of health care.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
May 17, 2017 - 03:03pm PT

I would conservatively estimate that 75% of the docs offered didn't attend a med school that I would put in the same league as UCLA or USC.

You realize, I hope, that half of all doctors have to be below average.
WBraun

climber
May 17, 2017 - 03:28pm PT
On Trump

“Before he makes any decision, he posts on Twitter.
He tweets and then checks the responses in order to make his decision."

ROFLMAO !!!!!

Modern POTUS ... for the people by the people.

Way too funny .......
little Z

Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
May 17, 2017 - 03:32pm PT
to special prosecuter Mueller - LOCK HIM UP!


thank you Rod Rosenstein. This man has a huge set of balls (this guy down here, not that loser up there)



Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 17, 2017 - 04:38pm PT
And rural schisthole states like Idaho don't attract as many doctors, per this U.S.A Today ranking that has Idaho as the 4th worst state for doctors per 100,000 population. Mississippi of course is the worst & the best ratio state, Massachusetts, has nearly twice as many doctors per 100,000 as Idaho does.

Well, Idaho chooses not to spend the money on a medical school and residency training. Why is this a problem? They've made a choice, they're adults.
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