Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2013 - 11:55pm PT
|
GhoulweJ said:
Hard to believe that it eventually meant renaming what was just climbing to Trad. You just reminded me; way back when that's exactly what I thought!
I don't have an ax to grind concerning sport climbing: I think a lot of it is absolutely magnificent, but the renaming thing was odd. Even for sport climbing to get its own name seemed out of sorts. Then trad got its own name which just felt awkward. Oh well. In the end it's all about the activity and not the label, as so many have asserted.
Badges? We don't need no stinking Badges!
|
|
Fogarty
climber
BITD
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2013 - 12:02am PT
|
Trad? Funny on me I herd this trad thing and 30 years of climbing and more at this time I asked a friend what is this trad thing? my friend told me it is traditional climbing non sport. My response to this was is that just climbing?
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2013 - 12:09am PT
|
And that reminds me of the shape of things once upon a time in terms of nomenclature.
We already had: mountaineering, alpinism, super alpinism, ice climbing, free climbing, direct aid a.k.a. aid climbing a.k.a. wall climbing a.k.a. nailing, free climbing, long free routes, cragging and so forth. Should all of that be subsumed under the umbrella of TRAD. No, sport climbing merely needed to be added to the list. And if it wasn't in fact all grouped under the umbrella of trad, neither did frequently made need to be called trad.
Let's some of us go over to Higgins' site and read that piece!
What say you! Let's slip into our loafers, don cardigans, grab our jugs of port, spectacles, mechanical pencils, legal pads and light out for the source of all of this hullabaloo.
If trad is dead, we may as well go visit the hatchery.
Werner can stand by tending our mortal wounds, eventually to pull us from the sludge of our compulsive drudgery. Yeah.
WHAT SAY YOU!
|
|
StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2013 - 12:30am PT
|
It is all just climbing in the end, and worthy of respect for the most part. It is a choice of aesthectics everyone makes each time out. It is about your own values. Ground up/onsite. Honesty in style and integrity in action.
Trad is a balance of minimal impact and acceptable risk. It values adventure and dealing with what the rock gives you, moment to moment. It is about good and bad judgement. It is about understanding and accepting the implicaitons of your decisions. Trad is about doubt. If you can't deal, go somewhere else or come back when you can.
It is about not taking yourself too seriously....ever.
"So let's save the dragon; and in the future let's follow the road that past climbers marked out. I'm convinced it's still the right one."
Reinhold Messner
Trad is saving the dragon ;-)
|
|
Paco
Trad climber
Montana
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2013 - 12:56am PT
|
Trad is weight.
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2013 - 02:07am PT
|
Smokin' only the best.
Weed.
If that's what he said it was...
Who ya gonna trade with, Trad?
Climbin' only the best lines
Without a clip
And with a belay from hip.
Bad-dip, bad-dip.
What a trip!
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2013 - 02:11am PT
|
One of the very best live groups ever! I saw them at the Bottom Line in NYC about the same time as I was falling in love with climbing, that would be around 1975. That show was a complete mind f*ck.
FACT: Mick Gillette = best lead trumpet player ever anywhere anytime.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2013 - 02:16am PT
|
Trad lead of Drunkard's Delight - 'Gunks - shorts, EB's, tied slings, a set of stoppers, a set of hexes...
modern lead of same climb, same place:
photo credit at rockclimbing.com...
yoga pants, Mythos, helmet, complete set of cams, sewn slings, tats...
both Trad?
|
|
RyanD
climber
Squamish
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2013 - 04:07am PT
|
Tough call Ed,
But if the tradsters are against yoga pants on the trad betty's nowadays then count me out.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2013 - 06:40am PT
|
Note the shoes hanging on the butt in the old gunks photo. We almost always hiked along the ridge (eating blueberries) either back to the uberfall or to an easy downclimb chimny past high E. Now they rap from those retro bolted anchors.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2013 - 07:11am PT
|
It's still just climbing to me. Ice , alpine, multi pitch tard, single pitch tard, aid, ground up FA's, top done FA's, sport. Whatever. it's all climbing. I do not praticulary trust tard climbers whos pantys are so much in a bunch that they feel the need to constantly bash spurt climbers. Spurt climbers on the other hand are at least honest about why they don't trad climb. Man, thats scary shit! Or they would like to learn but have not made the step yet. many of the tradsters who constantly bash the sport climbers simply are not strong enough to get past the warm ups ;)
I did a Red rocks trip in 86 with Charlie Gray. We hit moab and Zion on the way from aspen and ended up in Black velvet canyon for a week. We did Dream of wild turkeys, Triasic sands, the Gobbler, Frogland, Wholesome fullback, Closed on Monday,and Prince of Darkness. Got spit out of the first pitch of Ixlan. Prince of darkness was not in the book but we had a topo on a bar napkin from Michale kennedy i believe? Anyways we thought POD was one of the best climbs of the trip. I know that i certainly did not even realize that it was a contraversial climb. I simply thought it was tons of fun. It is intersting over the years to hear all the back handed derision about the climb (often from folks who have not climbed it) simply because it is mostly bolted. Small minds INMOP.
A light rack to green camalot is recomended..
|
|
Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2013 - 08:53am PT
|
Yes, occasions still occur in my life for trad climbing. Generally I only put up sport routes on walls that will result in a cluster of climbs. But sometimes these sport climbs to be are located on a blob or outcrop that has only a 5th class approach. I then borrow gear and do a grown up ground breaking event from the ground UP but without any pictures or fanfare of the climb being an FFA. Sorry these routes never get mentioned if a guidebook happens.
|
|
rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2013 - 09:19am PT
|
It's amusing that Ed posted pictures of the ceiling on Drunkard's Delight, which has a bombproof threaded sling as the primary protection---this is probably the blue sling in the BITD shot. Can't get much tradder than a threaded sling.
Although the thread is pretty obvious, it isn't unusual for the modern leader to plug cams in right next to this perfect thread. (The over-equipped woman in Ed's second shot has doubles in sizes that are rarely doubled, if even carried at all, in the Gunks, and if nothing else is seriously in need of placing gear to lighten up the load.)
If cams hadn't been invented, there would now be bolts all over trad climbs, and the distinctions, hazy as they have become, would be even further blurred.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2013 - 09:35am PT
|
Tradmanclimb's statement is a no-brainer we should all agree:
I do not praticulary trust tard climbers whos pantys are so much in a bunch that they feel the need to constantly bash spurt climbers.
StahlBro’s maxim should explain why:
It is about not taking yourself too seriously....ever.
RyanD’s comment:
But if the tradsters are against yoga pants on the trad betty's nowadays then count me out.
No doubt Ryan; but I believe Ed was characterizing as opposed to criticizing.
We trad climbers do often take note of over-geared modern climbers, think of it as a suggestion to understand the benefits of minimalism.
Kumbaya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2013 - 09:46am PT
|
From Godfrey and Chelton's CLIMB!
Diana Hunter leading Wide Country's crux pitch on The Bastille:
|
|
Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2013 - 09:51am PT
|
Tarbuster,
The obvious: Between every two crack is a face.
Conclusion: There are more potential face climbs because different face climbs can be on the same face.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2013 - 10:07am PT
|
It takes all kinds of folks to fill the freeways DMT! (That's a play … off of the Johnny Carson quote from way up thread)
Dingus McGee: sorry but I am not following? You're talking about availability of face climbs to what end?
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2013 - 10:26am PT
|
Wonder Braun sez:
"Ho Mahn, you trad cats awre a strange breed indeed!"
photo manipulation by OUCH!
|
|
Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2013 - 10:38am PT
|
Tarbuster,
I'm talking about climbable surfaces. You see with gear only you must follow along (near) the path of the gear line. Hence crack climbing.
But beyond the boundary of the crack is a richness of how do you navigate that overhanging face/surface that for some us is a far more of an intriguing problem than what we have gotten from cams and cracks. Eldorado is a trad? area that exudes some forms of this problem solving.
What I am getting at is that Trad and Sport generally do not use the same turf. The Black Hills Needles have many ground up bolted face climbs that at least some of the locals insist are trad. I did grow up there but now find this duckwalk style of face climbing boring. I can now see why even if sport bolted climbs were on that media, the moves lack what many of us sport climbers are after.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!