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klk
Trad climber
cali
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trash knows no season
heh
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jstan
climber
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Quite cool today. 84ºF back up at the house.
This morning I got a first pass on the property between the Pit and Alta Loma. A gold mine! Maybe 50 pounds worth. Also did Alta Loma from Park Boulevard to the western intersection with Sunset. Sunset south is looking pretty good! Want gradually to work west on Alta Loma to YV. I drive that when going in to the big city.
Lost one of my grabber cups. Have to fix it. It kept right on working!
Now back to real work.
Edit:
Anders:
It works well enough with just one cup to allow me to keep going. I can't seem to find a contact for Orangotongs so I PM'd Ken for an address.
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jstan
climber
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Went down with the JT Clean Team. We picked up the Post Office area today. I had lost one of the rubber cups from Ken Yager's Orangotongs. The Clean team gave me a replacement. On the way home I found fresh trash where I picked up last week on Alta Loma. As I was getting that a fellow stopped, rolled down his window and hollered, "Thank you so much. You are the best!" Spic and span again. That's exactly the way it worked in New York.
It as been a good day and I have not even started work yet.
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susan peplow
climber
Joshua Tree, CA
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Kudos to you John and very happy to hear one the locals tossed a big thanks to you too! Hit and stucky out fior such volunteer work but as Kerwin so aptly put it "trash knows no season"
Good on ya!
Edit: that's hot & sticky but the other sounds silly enough to keep
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jstan
climber
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Aug 30, 2012 - 06:49pm PT
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Yesterday completed trash pickup for Hidden Valley Campground. Did quail springs last month.
What is the next worst area??????? I need suggestions.
HVCG was pretty bad. Perhaps ten times worse than C4. Aluminum foil torn up by varmints looking for food very severe and deposits were old. Even found two tea bags that had been tossed into the bushes. Broken glass deposits were generally old. Found cases where the toilets had not been used even though less than 100 feet away. Not a lot of adhesive tape. Found two pennies. Apparently $100 bills are limited to Northern California.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Aug 30, 2012 - 08:52pm PT
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Great work jstan! I make it a point to pick up stuff every time out. You may want to check on the parking area for Rattlesnake Canyon. I picked up a bunch of stuff there before Gordo Fest, especially going east along the hillside.
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RtM
climber
DHS
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Aug 31, 2012 - 12:07pm PT
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Yea, jstan - thanks!
I make it a point to pick up trash whenever I'm out in the wilderness. Whenever I hit up a circuit or crag, the first thing I do is walk the area and collect all trash. I agree that HVCG is the worst! Can't even cut through there without filling up my bag. Another area that needs some love is at the end loop parking for Rattlesnake canyon at Indian Cove. Last time I rolled through there I must have picked up 50 cigarette butts in about 5 minutes.
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Scole
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 31, 2012 - 02:09pm PT
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There was a time in Joshua Tree when FAs did not require bolting, and fixed anchors were the exception. Anyone willing to walk a bit can still find countless unclimbed cracks in Joshua Tree. Not as cool as a grid bolted patina face I agree, but much closer to the roots of JT climbing.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 31, 2012 - 02:20pm PT
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Thanks JStan.
A j-tree facelift event would be a blast! Always looking for an excuse to get out there and play.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Aug 31, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
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Another area that needs some love is at the end loop parking for Rattlesnake canyon
Took my son scrambling out there last winter and fished out a lot of beer cans, including a pull tab Bud can from the early 80s I guess? Maybe it was of historical interest and I should have not disturbed it?
Away from the roads the trash is not a huge issue anymore, Trail damage is a bigger problem now, they need to do more public education about how fragile the desert is.
jstan, save some trash for us! j/k, thanks for picking up, especially in town.
edit: there used to be a Facelift type event at JT, I used to participate in the late 80s early 90s. Trash actually got noticeably scarce after a couple of years.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Aug 31, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
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I agree - trail braiding is a bigger problem. Maybe we get get "Free Coffee" to mention any upcoming and long term plans to fix trails, and how volunteers can help? I know it is a bureaucracy to get trail work planned and approved, but they have improved some areas over the past few years.
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jstan
climber
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Khanom(Eric):
Yesterday I put in a good part of one day cleaning trash at the Pit. It is very hard as the trash has been accumulating for at least fifty years. You have to go over the ground from all four compass points even to get the macrotrash. But I have got a good part of the macro and a lot of the micro over the 5 acre area shown.
Bob and I are meeting tomorrow morning to bring me up to date on the background and history. My card for residential trash allows me to dispose of 2000# per month. So borrowing a trailer will allow the immediate trash problem to be solved no problem. We need to clear off all ten acres before doing the moving though. Do it all in one go.For sure we could use help in that clearing process. I may be able to borrow some more grabber sticks from the JT Clean Team.
The longer term questions will take some thought. I am sure we can find ways around them.
PS:
Google Earth even shows the prevailing wind direction. The upwind area to the west should be the sweet spot on the 10 acres. The downwind portion yesterday was downright gnarly.
Edit:
I suppose my putting the Pit on a JTNP thread can be questioned. The Pit shares many problems that exist elsewhere so they are in the same tent. And this thread has talked about real problems. So I thought it to be appropriate.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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I found a ten dollar bill and a quarter today doing clean up. Now I have ten dollars and twenty-five cents saved towards a new van(Swanky has until 10/25 and then his registration expires; he cannot pass inspection as is and the leprosy, a/k/a Northeastern Rust Syndrome, he suffers from makes doing the repairs to pass inspection futile)!
JStan - I have done clean up a few times in the Pit over the last two years. Several big trash bags removed each time. At least it's likely you didn't find the horrible number of butt rag socks and towels that I did first time I went out there(what the hell, people????).
One big problem for that place is that some people are lazy and feel unbeholden to behaving in a civilized way. They sit out at night and don't batten down the hatches before retiring - removing cans, paper bags and 12-pack boxes, light items like stuff sacks and such. The wind picks up and the stuff is gone in a flash, only to be harpooned a few feet into the brush.
If someone who is there tells the new arrivals *the rules,* it's more likely that person will get the stinkeye and a "who the hell are you, thinking you can tell me what to do" attitude than a thanks for filling them in.
You can tell people that dumpster is not in service, and to carry out, they'll nod their head yes, and the next morning you'll see them go over and put stuff in the dumpster before others wake up.
I am not sure how I am going to get to JTree this winter, but I do hope to, arriving about mid-November. Even though the Pit is gawdawful on a cleanliness scale, and the dirtbag mentality coming out of people driving cars less than two years old is pathetic, it is a very convenient place for those who are on extended stay.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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John (jstan);....thanks for turning this finger pointing name calling thread into a positive and awesome example of what is good and right;.......free coffee started it out with an important issue;...but it soon became a train wreck;.....thanks for "cleaning up the mess" ...both in our beautiful desert and on the internet...
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jstan
climber
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Trip Report:
Following Stahlbro's suggestion, yesterday I went to Indian Cove intending to do all of the Cove
and the parking lot in one go. The first thing you see going in is the Group Campsites, so I start
those a little after 8AM. There are 13 of those big boys and each took a little under one hour.
Some of the hairiest climbing going. To get into all the nooks and crannies I had to climb with
sneakers whose soles were coming off. After seven or eight hours picking up broken beer bottles
I developed a strange desire. I needed a beer. When a youngster in one of the sites asked if I
needed water I went for it and asked for a cold beer. Never before has a Tecate done me that
much good. A primal experience.
I had to leave two sites for the next trip.
The Park needs our help very badly. Indian Cove was even worse than HVCG. If anyone in the
JT/YV area is up for this, drop me a PM and we will schedule something. I should be getting a
few Orangutongs shortly.
And a really gnarly ice chest.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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jstan rocks
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Well thanks so much for the nice words there. I was actually getting a little bit of motivation thanks to John to try and get some stuff done pre-season.
But now I'm done.
I have put more time, money, effort, and energy into The Pit than everybody combined.
Wally and I spent 2 months in the middle of summer digging that thing. 6 to 7 days a week. I have personally removed 3 of the 5 cars that were dumped there by climbers. One of which cost me $150 to get removed. I've done countless dump runs over the years and cleanups without assistance only to have the place trashed at the end of the season with no one around to help clean it up.
The dumpster was graciously left there by the American Alpine Club who walked away from the project without paying the bills.
I've done my best to ask people who stay seasonally to tell people not to camp on the hill only to come by in the morning and have to do it myself. I've asked people time and time again to clean up some and it never happens. More stuff get's left behind.
Harie Cohn who own's the property I live on came up with her trailer two summers ago and we did two major dump hauls and paid for it. She's not even a climber. She did as a favor to Wally and me.
I know Terry (happiegirl) did her best, but usually got sluffed off by others.
I had contacted some people I know who would take the old metal couches and other random recyclable materials out of there this week, but I think now I'm going to forget that. It would require my taking time out of my work day to wait for them, and they are not always punctual. I was also thinking about getting Wally's tractor down there to do some grading and cleanup, of course I'll be paying for the fuel to do that. Diesel ain't cheap.
That comment was pure and simply insulting.
I'm done.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Thanks John for your efforts. This is exactly what we talked about the other day and why I am disenchanted by the pit.
I appreciate your efforts.
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jstan
climber
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Robert:
On Sunday we came to the conclusion after we got the present trash out of there we would make
the dumpster disappear. The common experience is that trash barrels
generate trash. If the dumpster can't disappear, I suppose we could batten it down
somehow so it is not useable. We can just fill it with dirt. Not a biggie. Then the continuation of
the pit will depend on people managing their trash.
In the event that people using the area manage their trash then the area can continue on merrily.
If they do not, what are the prospects? Ultimately it will come down to the neighbors complaining
to the county about the facility and the damn climbers. No matter who is causing the problem it
will be the damn climbers. Ultimately there will be many official visits and perhaps even county
complaints to the land owner.
The digging of the pit and its subsequent use created a nuisance. At first there will be posting of
No Trespassing signs which will be ignored. Ultimately the sheriff will object to his not having
staff to manage an owner created problem. To actually close it off will require either refilling the
pit or fencing off the entire ten acres. Probably both.
I think we have a good chance of avoiding all the bad stuff. It will not come through one
individual, such as Happie Girl trying to get people to manage their garbage. It can only happen
if climbers determine to own the problem. When some one is acting up, four or five climbers
walk over and say, "Hi! And by the way......"
Eventually even people coming in out of season will have to deal with the possibility a bunch of
climbers may show up. There are other places to go after all.
If climbers do step up and own the problem, it will prove to be a great step forward.
Time to think positively.
Seems to me.
On another topic.
As taxpayers we all own the problem of trash dropped inadvertently in our National Parks.
Climbers are a prominent user group for JTNP.
Walmart has a super burly ice chest that will keep ice for days even in a closed automobile. If
anyone wants to come along for a day I will fill it with ice, beer, water, orange juice and some
catered sandwiches. (You don't want any sandwich I made.)
Even getting fricasseed is made a perfect experience when you sit down in the shade with a good
beer/water/OJ and see how much you have done.
Indian Cove needs finishing.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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I 100% agree with everything you say. Unfortunately my experience over the past ten years is that this will not happen.
The county issues have always been a huge concern. Trust me, it was discussed from day one. At length.
I just won't stand for ignorant insults when I've done my very best make this thing work with little to no support whatsoever.
We can talk further this week.
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