Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
EdBannister
Mountain climber
CA
|
|
the system is not perfect
it needs change, but not federalization.
If you have Canada's healthcare, more women die of breastcancer,
despite all the naysayers, the stat is the stat, the cure rate in Canada is lower, not because of a demographic, but because the system will nat pay for the most expensive drugs, which are not available in Canada, but are in the us.
fewer Docs will be available for patients, care will decrease, and costs will go up.
|
|
rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
|
|
ed.....you said canadian woman don't have access to the more expensive cancer drugs raising mortality rates ......so what do you suggest...? throw up your arms and keep letting the drug manufacturers rape the populace....? no, you kick the politicians in the ass and sick em on the pharmacutical companies so that those drugs are more affordable and accessible....bush helped make those drugs more unaffordable for americans......what a patriot....!....money doesn't seem to be a problem for our government when it comes to developing some sci-fi star wars defense system or sicking our military on some oil laden mid-east country.....
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
fattrad, you regularly state that you believe there should be a baseline ('inferior', as you described it) level of care for all citizens, with the best treatments and procedures made available to those who can afford it- I agree strongly with this idea.
Then, sometimes within the same day, you go on again about how socialism and similar medical programs are bankrupting Spain, Greece, etc., and how anyone who would desire such a program is 'kumbaya', and throw out any number of repetitive obstructions or objections to the concept.
This dichotomy is exactly why I don't believe you, fattrad. You say you favor the idea, then roadblock it left and right. It's a real political tactic, but utterly transparent.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
Nice post Lois, Fatty should address it.
The deductable on my insurance resets Jan 1st so last month I had some tests run and had a checkup. Got the bill in the mail
For lab tests, an uninsured Poor person would have been billed $214. The insurance has an agreement with them to only take $43 for the same tests. The insurance shelled out $43 and because my $3500 deductable was already met, I paid nothing.
Is there any justice in that? We're talking about bankrupting the uninsured right and left and hanging anybody who gets sick (as in Lois's post) out to dry if they lose their insurance (which happens all the time)
System is broken
Peace
Karl
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
Not only health insurance being done this year by the Democrats, but also
the Democrats passing, and Obama signing, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.
This is especially important if one is a WOMAN.
As you all recall, Lilly Ledbetter worked for Goodyear for decades,
side by side doing the same job as men, and they paid her LESS than the men.
She was never aware of this while working there, and only when a couple
of her fellow male workers sent her their paystubs and showed her how
her employer had knowingly screwed her for years, did she then file suit.
The case went all the way to the US Supreme Court, where the court ruled
5-4 AGAINST her claim, with the five RIGHT WING justices voting against her
and all women.
Bush had NO interest in signing legislation that corrected this, and
so when the Democrats took control of the Senate and Presidency last year,
the VERY FIRST legislation they passed was to stand up for women's rights
to EQUAL PAY, regardless of the length of time elapsed after found out.
SO, add Democrats standing up for ALL WOMEN, in addition to healthcare.
Oh yeah, the Democrats just two weeks ago passed the ANTI RAPE amendment.
This gave WOMEN the right to the US Court system when they are RAPED
by a fellow defense contractor employee.
ALL thirty eight REPUBLICANS VOTED AGAINST giving women the right to courts when they ARE RAPED when employed by defense contractors.
The list goes on and on.
Don't think for one minute the healthcare bill is the ONLY thing
Democrats have been RIGHT about, now that they have some congressional power.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
Do you believe the biggest LIE ever told in politics?
Beautiful theories are often ravaged by gangs of brutal facts:
Willing to put aside LIES and believe ONLY facts?
This chart shows how wildly irresponsible and big spending the REPUBLICANS ARE.
This chart shows how fiscally responsible the DEMOCRATS are.
Willing to put aside LIES and believe ONLY facts?
Willing to put aside LIES and believe ONLY facts?
|
|
rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
|
|
"Oh yeah, the Democrats just two weeks ago passed the ANTI RAPE amendment.
This gave WOMEN the right to the US Court system when they are RAPED
by a fellow defense contractor employee."
So men don't have the same rights as women here or is WOMEN in all caps being emphasized to be misleading?
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
Rectorsquid:
You caught me, and you are RIGHT.
Absolutely, MEN are ALSO included with women in being protected by
the Democrat passed defense department Amendment.
The Amendment says ANYONE raped by a fellow defense contractor employee
should have the same right to US Courts as any other American does.
I put WOMEN in caps so some WOMEN reading might pay better attention,
and change their mind when one stated that the ONLY thing Democrats have passed this
year that is any good is the healthcare bill.
Did I mention the stock market is up a historic 60% since the DEMOCRATS
passed the Economic Stimulus Bill? Is THAT a "good thing", duh, YES!
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
Nobody cares about post 559
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
My girlfriend was talking with a relative who was working for an insurance company until about 4 years ago when she quit in protest. This person was given points that affected her pay. You earned your points by finding reasons to deny claims.
That was the whole game, figure out how to say no, regardless of the merit of the claim.
Cross your Ts
peace
Karl
|
|
rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
|
|
Karl...i'm uninsured and had that panel thing done 2 years ago....it was around $600.00 which didn't cover the follow up .....i had a south african friend who couldn't afford this expensive heart medicine....he was found on a trail slumped over dead on his mt. bike with his faithful dog waiting next to him....oh yeah , we have the best system in the world....death to the insurance maggots....
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
"EdBannister:
If you have Canada's healthcare, more women die of breastcancer,
despite all the naysayers, the stat is the stat, the cure rate in Canada is lower, not because of a demographic, but because the system will nat pay for the most expensive drugs, which are not available in Canada, but are in the us."
Quote your sources, Ed!
"Canada gets high ranking for cancer survival rates"
The range of survival rates across the five provinces was quite narrow, from a low of 79.3 per cent in Nova Scotia to a high of 85.4 per cent in British Columbia. The disparity in survival rates crossed racial lines in the U.S., as well, with white patients having a five-year survival rate of 84.7 per cent and black patients having a survival rate of 70.9 per cent.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080716/cancer_statistics_080716/20080716/
"The significant improvement in survival rates for women with breast cancer since the mid-1980s is likely a result of improvements in screening and advances in treatment. At present, the five-year relative survival rate for breast cancer in Canada is 87%, which means that women diagnosed with breast cancer have an 87% likelihood of living for 5 years after their diagnosis.
Source: Canadian Cancer Society /National Cancer Institute of Canada. Canadian Cancer Statistics 2009, Toronto, Canada, 2009"
|
|
bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
|
|
I verbally reprimand her
i know how effective that must have been.
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
"I'v in favor of a baseline provided by county/state facilities that provide routine checkups, immunization, generic drugs and life saving (injury) services. But, if you get cancer or other long term issues, it should be private insurance or private cash or non-profits. No gamma knife surgeries, latest biotechs, etc without using your own funds (insurance)."
I agree with that concept, fattrad.
I don't believe you would ever do anything to support such a system, though. Prove me wrong (as if it makes any difference).
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
"It's scary though, cause when she's making our case about health care, she sounds so reasonable and rational. "
Eery, what do you think she's really doin?
Just kidding, rock on, sister!
You know, of course, that this whole thing would go a lot smoother without republicans?
|
|
Binks
Social climber
|
|
Socialism = paying taxes period. Republicans seem to think if you get something back from it, that's wrong. I think if you don't get anything back from paying 30% of your salary for life that is seriously messed up. It's OK to spend trillions on wars that no one even knows why we are fighting, deregulate every industry, and funnel the money to multinational corporations claiming they will do what's right for Americans. We all know how that turns out.
If we got to vote where our taxes went directly that would be true Democracy. Republicans can put all their money into Halliburton, Pfizer, Lockheed, the war against drugs and "terror". I'll put some of mine into a Healthcare program for all.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
Why organisze, on this level, if there aren't benefits for the common good?
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
The True Cost of the Republican Medicare Part D Bill:
Comptroller General David M. Walker to call it "... probably the most fiscally irresponsible piece of legislation since the 1960s."
In their 2009 report to Congress, the Medicare trustees estimate the 10-year cost of Medicare D as high as $1.2 trillion. That figure—just for prescription-drug coverage that people over 65 still have to pay a lot of money for—dwarfs the $848 billion cost of the Senate bill. The Medicare D price tag continues to escalate because the bill explicitly bars the government from using its market power to negotiate drug prices with manufacturers or establishing a formulary with approved medications.
And unlike the Democratic bills, which won't add to the deficit, the bill George W. Bush signed was financed entirely through deficit spending. While Grassley and his colleagues accuse Democrats of harming Medicare through cost cuts, it is their bill that has done the most to hasten Medicare's coming insolvency. Between now and 2083, Medicare D's unfunded obligations amount to $7.2 trillion according to the trustees. Numbers like these prompted former Comptroller General David M. Walker to call it "... probably the most fiscally irresponsible piece of legislation since the 1960s."
http://www.slate.com/id/2238098/
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
"So, I'm at a meeting yesterday afternoon with the CEO of Kaiser No. Calif.
He agrees that reforms are necessary..."
That kind of statement really burns my short hairs. Repugs or insurance industry people 'agreeing' that the system needs to change, but when the one opportunity in 50 years came up, all they did is stand behind FauxNews hyperbolic teabagging bullsh*t, and did all that they could to drag their heels towards any change of any kind.
Do you think the system should change, or don't you, punk? Then do something about it, and don't offer me your post-vote 'yeah, I actually think the system needs to change' bullsh*t. Transparent as hell.
|
|
rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
|
|
fattrad....hanging with der kaiser of ceo.....? now i see why you are called the evil one.....i'm suprised ( sarcasm ) that the CEO of kaiser thought that the insurance companies would be better at keeping costs down than a whimpy politician.....! so i'm wondering why your CEO buddy hasn't kept the costs of medicine down ? ( more sarcasm ? )
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!