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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 26, 2006 - 12:34pm PT
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Sure Woody start a thread and tell us what you believe. Do all your beliefs correspond neatly with the mainstream media reportage?
This whole 9-11 thing has an interesting parallel in this former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko poisoned by radiation in England. The guy claims Russia bombed apartment buildings in Russia that killed three hundred people and blamed it on Muslims so they could go to war with Chechnya. The only difference between that and 9-11 is scale.
Still, I hear that the media in Russia is still pretty much under control and the Alexander Litvinenko isn't getting much press overall, even though the net in Russia is all buzzing from it.
The question is, where and how far do you decide to believe somebody like Alexander Litvinenko? Do you believe he was a Russian spy? Even the media and Russia admit it. Do you believe he was poisoned by radiation? Would you have believed it if the English government hadn't confirmed it?
Yada yada. It's easy to throw up you hands and say "conspiracy theory" without any evidence to the contrary, but it just means your head is in the sand.
The extent that our Iraq adventure is costing our country has yet to be revealed. We can't afford to buy more government lies at the cost of the lives of our friends and kids, or our financial future either. Do you believe Iraq had WMDs in 2003? The government said they were sure and had prove. Evidence later showed they lied about it and knew they were lying. Which do you believe?
Peace
Karl
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Brutus of Wyde
climber
Old Climbers' Home, Oakland CA
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Nov 26, 2006 - 06:06pm PT
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Darn, is everybody leaving just when this thread was getting interesting?
Where y'all going?
Hello?
Hello?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 26, 2006 - 06:40pm PT
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Blame Brutus. He's the last guy in the room, holding a tube chock and looking haggard!
It's Sunday afternoon. Folks are more likely feel like debating the big issue when they should be working on Tuesday afternoon.
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 27, 2006 - 01:07am PT
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Here's more on the paperwork and financing side of things. I recommend reading the whole thing at
http://fromthewilderness.com/members/102506_possible_names.php
If you're asked for membership info and password, any email and password will do. It's complete with references and links
"The man identified by the FBI as one of the primary financers of the 9/11 attacks, Omar Sheikh, may have worked for British intelligence during the 1990s, according to a newly released book by Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.
“It is believed in some quarters that while Omar Sheikh was at the LSE (London School of Economics) he was recruited by the British intelligence agency MI6,” Musharraf writes in his book, In the Line of Fire: A Memoir. “It is said,” Musharraf notes, “that MI6 persuaded him to take an active part in demonstrations against Serbian aggression in Bosnia and even sent him to Kosovo to join the jihad.”1
The man in question, Omar Sheikh, became infamous in 2002 when he was sentenced to death for the murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, a crime Musharraf and several others claim Omar did not commit.2
While Omar Sheikh’s reported ties to Pearl’s death have been making headlines for years, his alleged links to 9/11, as well as to Pakistani and Western intelligence agencies, have gone significantly underreported.
Similarly, several key points have been omitted from Musharraf’s book, perhaps in an attempt to cover up embarrassing and possibly criminal activities of Pakistani and US officials.
Musharraf’s book does not mention Omar Sheikh’s alleged role in the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, nor does it mention Omar’s widely reported connections to Pakistan’s intelligence agency, the ISI, nor does mention Omar’s alleged history with the CIA.
A brief review of such details would have revealed startling information.
Prior to the 9/11 attacks, the head of Pakistan’s ISI, General Mahmud Ahmed, ordered Omar Sheikh to wire $100,000 to the lead hijacker, Mohammed Atta—a report that has been confirmed by the director of the FBI’s financial crimes unit, Dennis Lormel.3
General Mahmud, who is portrayed in Musharraf’s book as a close military advisor and a strong ally during the 1999 coup,4 maintained simultaneous relationships with the Taliban, al-Qaeda, and the governments of both Pakistan and the United States.5
In fact, General Mahmud (who allegedly ordered Omar Sheikh to finance the 9/11 attacks) was in Washington the week of 9/11 for, as one Pakistani report put it, “mysterious meetings at the Pentagon and National Security Council.”6.."
Food for thought and another range of things unexplained by the 9-11 commission.
Peace
Karl
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 27, 2006 - 02:51am PT
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Chuckcar
Oh these are just all trivialities, the real meat and bones is that is that you will be seen wrong in all your assumptions.
Just you wait, you will be shocked ......
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woodcraft
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2006 - 03:05am PT
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I've been thinking about an image from the Kobe earthquake ('95), from a link earlier in this thread. It shows a number of buildings that have toppled- maybe 20 stories tall. the buildings are basically lying on their sides, intact, not deformed or crushed. When they hit the ground, it would have been with considerable speed and force. Even though that is not the direction that would have been designed to be the strongest, you don't see much distortion.
Compare this to the story of 'collapse initiation' where the WTC upper floors section is supposed to have smashed down (15, 20 feet?) on the floor below and led to the 110 stories being blown to dust in 10 seconds.
Even if you flame about the flames, it doesn't add up. Those buildings didn't fall down, they were blown to bits.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 27, 2006 - 03:06am PT
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I give Chuckcar credit for addressing the questions that others have raised.
Personally I'm not into the "controlled demo" evidence regarding 9-11 but that's me.
Who knows if the truth, whatever it is, will come out. We still hardly know squat about Kennedy and nobody really know who burned the Reichstag while Hilter was rising to power either.
Peace
Karl
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Blight
Social climber
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Nov 27, 2006 - 08:38am PT
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"Do governments really do this crap, kill their own for whatever selfish evil reason or motive?"
Of course not.
Only the terrorist related programme activities supporting nations of the axis of evil do such things. Not ours.
So naturally, when one of the british government's top biological warfare experts was known to have information proving that the WMD claims about Iraq were a lie, it was a just a tragic coincidence that he "committed suicide" before he could deliver the evidence.
Committed suicide.
While out walking his dog.
By taking 29 co-proxamol tablets and slashing his wrists.
And without getting any blood on himself.
No, only evil foreigners kill their own.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 28, 2006 - 06:36pm PT
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Excellent presentation at Berkeley regarding 9-11 Truth. This was on C-Span just last week after Thanksgiving, but the presentation event took place much earlier. This is must see TV! Really, really good stuff.
All OCTers can eat their own baloney. Have as much as you want. I want the truth.
September 24, 2006 marked the first public event sponsored by Berkeley radio station KPFA regarding the alternative vision of the events of 9/11.
9/11 & AMERICAN EMPIRE: INTELLECTUALS SPEAK OUT
A KPFA public event. A landmark event publicizing 9/11Truth, including the complete presentations of each of four major contributors to the book American Empire: David Ray Griffin, Peter Dale Scott, Peter Phillips and Kevin Ryan plus question and answer moderated by host CIA veteran Ray McGovern.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=3195658770053494633
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