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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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May 10, 2010 - 12:54am PT
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I like what mushroom said...and I want to change what I said. In my opinion, the number ONE answer is "Their parents taught them to."
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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May 10, 2010 - 09:37am PT
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Greg,
You are right. We are given a responsibility and will be held to account for it.
Is everything my parents taught me correct? No. But they did instill in me a love and respect for GOD, and others. I in turn will instill that in my children.
Proverbs 22:6 (KJV)
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
Glenn
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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May 10, 2010 - 09:51am PT
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I was just stating a point in fact. Clearly, the main reason most (obviously, not all) people believe what they do with respect to God and religion is the result of direct cultural transmission - mainly from parents to children. That's the primary reason that Muslim's hold their views and Christians hold theirs.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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May 10, 2010 - 12:01pm PT
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The more pain you have , the more God you need.
Not my words, but it does seem to make sence.
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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May 10, 2010 - 12:05pm PT
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cheaper than therapy.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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May 10, 2010 - 12:09pm PT
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I did some of my own thinking and instead of just taking what my parents told me as the truth, I formed my own opinions and taught my child something different. This change is the only way for the human race to advance to a high level of anything. If we took our parents word for things outright, we would still be blood-letting for its health benefits.
Dave
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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May 10, 2010 - 12:15pm PT
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because accepting that there is no afterlife is just too damn hard to do
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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May 10, 2010 - 12:33pm PT
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Any of you ir-religious or post-religious people...
... ever notice the term "afterlife" plays right into the hands of the religious supernaturalists? (Just like "atheism.") Just for the heck of it, try the word... lifeafter... might serve better.
Here's a usage example with both terms in the same sentence.
Example: "Of course there's an afterlife (state), I "believe in" an afterlife (state), just not a lifeafter."
Sometimes "rebel freeskites" (e.g., irreligious people) trying to break out of antiquated habits, antiquated traditions, can be their own worst enemy. -When they continue to use the language and framing of the system from which they are trying to get away or leave behind.
Words matter. Language matters.
But like rockclimbing, takes practice.
Another Example:
"This life is not a rehearsal. There is no lifeafter. We are evolved beings. Comprised of 100 trillion cells. Constituted like that, how could we live forever? Lifeafter- an ancient bronze age misconception institutionalized by religions down through the centuries-- is as bogus as astrology.
Just try it. It's way more specific than afterlife and doesn't play into the hands of religious supernaturalists.
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Robb
Social climber
The other "Magic City on the Plains"
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May 11, 2010 - 12:54am PT
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What I haven't seen posted in this thread is why all of you who don't believe in God get so worked up about those who do believe in God. If it/He isn't real, then so what? Why does it make a hill of beans?
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WBraun
climber
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May 11, 2010 - 01:01am PT
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Corn nut
Being being falsely proud of your word jugglery is one thing.
But actually believing in your own bullsh'it is even worse.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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May 11, 2010 - 02:18am PT
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Robb wrote-
"What I haven't seen posted in this thread is why all of you who don't believe in God get so worked up about those who do believe in God. If it/He isn't real, then so what? Why does it make a hill of beans?"
Well, that's certainly a platitude I've heard 100 times since the 1980s. But I would've hoped, since 9/11 esp, the reasons would be evident.
1. We live in a democracy. Votes matter. Science education, science literacy, matters. An accurate understanding of how the world works matters. An accurate understanding of how life works matters.
2. Today's Abrahamic religions all operate off of an ancient theology that's chock full of bronze age misconceptions, no, better, bronze age stupidities. Because they do they are an obstacle. An obstacle to higher education (both science education and general life education. An obstacle to less contentious more informed democracies. An obstacle to better practices in the "practice" of living.
More interesting: Why does this need to be spelled out? Surely you've been paying attention to what's been going on the world: How much money have our democracies had to spend fighting against ol' time religious ideologies? Ol time religious ideologies too numerous to count out here.
By the way: Which God? Most post-religious in American culture (like Sam Harris or me or Richard Dawkins) don't get "worked up" at all over Poseidon, for example, or Diacrates (the hypothetical Intelligence millions including Einstein speculated about).
Most get "worked up" only over Jehovah (aka Allah) the warrior god of the Abrahamic religions. And then only because of the theologies developed based on Him and the crazy ideas and behaviors of religious institutions founded on these.
But it won't always be so. Times are changing.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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May 11, 2010 - 02:20am PT
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Braun-
Give it a rest.
Your belief that... Life works through matter but is independent of it... is incorrect. Stop beating this dead horse.
Adapt. Upgrade your software. Take some life science courses. Spend your time and energy adapting to the Scientific Story (aka Epic of Evolution), not fighting it.
It's about raising awareness, Brawny, on the path to changing attitudes and behavior. But it does seem that you are set on fighting it at every turn- insofar as it conflicts with your own brand of ancient Hinduism.
Lean into the "growing pains" of change. It's how we advance, it's how we've always advanced.
Till you do, you'll always be at odds with science, science education. And with me. Good luck and good night.
"...proud of your word jugglery..."
...you only focus on the words because they're unfamiliar... if you ever went to school on the subjects behind them, they would be second nature. -Which is just the way it is with any technical discipline. Or trade or activity. Even rockclimbing.
It's late. Time to recharge the mitochondria. (Whoops, more "word jugglery," sorry...)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 11, 2010 - 06:19am PT
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Don't underestimate Werner! He carved that last post in a stone tablet and WAM! it appear on ST with a last gesture of his chisel. No stinking iPad for him.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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May 11, 2010 - 10:25am PT
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"Most get "worked up" only over Jehovah (aka Allah) the warrior god of the Abrahamic religions. And then only because of the theologies developed based on Him and the crazy ideas and behaviors of religious institutions founded on these."
i find it interesting that so few atheists "get worked up" about god but have little or nothing to say about godless societies (except hitchens) like stalinist ussr, red china, noko, etc.; stalin and mao EACH were responsible for the greatest destruction of human life ever recorded, and combined they stagger the imagination...conservative estimates credit stalin with 20 MILLION deaths and mao with 30 MILLION...and i'm talking about their own people, not the wars they participated in...take ALL the religiously motivated killings in history and you won't come near 50 million
and let's not forget the 50 MILLION babies killed in the womb just since roe
finally, to claim that there is no good to come out of religion would be equally idiotic to the claim that no good ever came from science...to condemn all religion or all religious people just because a few aholes blow themselves up in the name of allah would be equally idiotic to condemn einstein for inspiring hiroshima and nagasaki, which, i'm pretty sure outnumber in deaths the best efforts of the aforementioned aholes
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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May 11, 2010 - 10:51am PT
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"Why do so many people believe in God? (Serious Question?)"
because they can't imagine a world without a god?
because they need someone to blame?
Becuase they would not be moral if they didn't have the imaginary big brother type looking over their shoulder?
because they are weak?
the list goes on...
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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May 11, 2010 - 11:13am PT
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What I haven't seen posted in this thread is why all of you who don't believe in God get so worked up about those who do believe in God. If it/He isn't real, then so what? Why does it make a hill of beans?
Because the believers try to f*** up my life all too often. How about stop trying to convince my kid that there is a God by making her pray in school (...one nation UNDER GOD!!!).
And yes, big communist type civilizations that promoted atheism also did evil things. They wanted people to worship their commune and were pretty much like any set of deep believers in a higher power.
Theism and Atheism are like guns, they don't kill people, people kill people.
Dave
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
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May 11, 2010 - 11:30am PT
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I read an interesting book recently call Descartes' Bones, forget who the author is.
Goes into the struggle between rational thinking and religion. Really sets the present argumentation between fundamentalism and rational thought in a good historical perspective.
It made me start thinking that maybe we're in one of those times, due to a lot of uncertainities in present human existence, that a lot of people have been thrown back onto more primitive modes of thinking about the world, for whatever personal reasons.
Maybe we're in a time when we'll finally hash out all that bullshit and start thinking about things in more rational manner. I hope so because the present intensity of fundamentalism is so destructive. Hey, more people have been killed in the name of Christianity than all the world wars put together.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 11, 2010 - 11:48am PT
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Maybe we're in a time when we'll finally hash out all that bullshit and start thinking about things in more rational manner
I am currently reading William Manchester's book: A World Lit Only by Fire: The Medieval Mind and the Renaissance — Portrait of an Age
A lot of it deals with the Reformation and times that were very much like these.
As Manchester notes "intelligent people do not necessarily act logically."
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