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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Oct 12, 2017 - 04:11pm PT
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HRC on May 16, 2013, to the Brazilian bank Banco Itau:
"My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the hemisphere."
It's debatable what she really means.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Oct 12, 2017 - 05:22pm PT
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Studly... given your tone, or at least given your tone as i understood it... wherein you seem to connote that you are saying something that wasn’t already said by myself [when i said a variation of exactly what you are saying on only the preceding page] and then you ask seemingly inane questions regarding questions that you didn’t bother to answer yourself... i suspect this will be my last response to you as you don’t seem to be looking for actual conversation...
that said i’ve been off base in my reading before so in case i’ve got your intentions all wrong here’s the short version of an answer to your questions - or at least my version of a short version... hahaha:
 Yury didn’t seem to be making your point which is that “we” [aka the u.s. specifically and the “west” in general that aids and abbets] are not in a position to complain, nay even act regarding our or our allies airspace being violated because we violate the air space of other sovereign nations. your point is interesting and i’ll get back to it. so my question was to Yury who given the date he used [the date of sputnik’s launch] seemed to be attempting to make the point that air space issues are a de facto thing of the past. i don’t believe this to be true. there is a reason that the u.s. asked permission in the 80s to test cruise missiles over canuck airspace, and there’s a reason that when the u.s. went flying into pakistani airspace without permission in order to grab bin laden it seemed to have relational repercussions. ie. Yury seems to be making the argument that japan, the u.s., etc should just get over it as it is just a part of our contemporary life. i think this is bunk and so was just curious as to where his opinion was coming from and so asked the question that i did [and which still stands]. so as per your first question as to what my question was: feel free to check back to my post as it hasn’t changed.
your point on the other hand seems to be that, yes, it’s fUcked up for nk to be launching missiles over nippon but who are we to do anything when we violate basically the entire airspace of the middle east for example. now this is an interesting question. and i agree with you that ideally the u.s. should get the plank out of their own eye before they try to act as world police. that said i’m not a moral absolutist [even if i sometimes come across on ye ole st like one] and from my perspective the u.s.’s transgressions shouldn’t keep it from acting in a situation as serious as one where a rogue nation with basically no allies per se [i’m not saying china, iran and russia don’t have relationships with nk, i’m just saying that there isn’t one other country that is jumping up and down in support of nk’s more provocative actions of late] is: 1. violating the rights of its own people in ways that are on a scale and depth nearly unique in the world today; 2. fUcking around with the creation of more and more powerful nuclear weapons and 3. is testing ballistic missiles by firing them over a neighbour state who due to their own experience of being on the receiving end of them, has no intentions to have nuclear capabilities and who doesn’t even have a military capable of offensive action. to me the combination of all of the above is a bridge too far to be able to stand idly by, regardless of the u.s.’s/west’s transgressions [and you’ll get no argument from me that on that front there are many]
you, obv believe otherwise.
and so as per Yury, i didn’t really have a point as i was mostly just surprised by his opinion and was trying to get where he was coming from.
as per you: you can take the above as my point if you are in need of one.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Oct 12, 2017 - 06:29pm PT
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yes
Trump's order today will do a couple of things
1) It will allow some people to pay a lower monthly premium for their healthcare
and it will be lower because the insurance companies will now be allowed to take out all kinds of benefit coverage in order to sell it cheaper, for example a younger and healthier person who is willing gamble they won't get sick or in an accident serious enough to pay for quality hospitalization - they can perhaps also choose to have no prescription drugs coverage, no mental health coverage, perhaps young women can choose to buy a healthcare plan with no maternity coverage and gamble they won't accidentally get pregnant.
2) Ok so yes, some people, presumably the younger and healthier willing to gamble will benefit but those same people will then be taken out of the main healthcare pools and that will weaken those pools, make them less stable and cause the insurers to raise the monthly premiums for everyone else because the money won't be coming in from the young and healthy to keep the montly payments reasonable for those sicker and costing more.
Like all insurance, take car insurance for example, if older people who have the least accidents were put in their own special pool their payments would go down because that pool would not have the young hot head car drivers in it. But then the younger people would have such very higher premiums many of them could not be able to insure their cars and would have to break the law and the take the risk of driving without insurance.
Just the other day Henry Kissinger visited Trump in WH and Trump said that he did not want to see Henry's monthly healthcare premium go up sharply because of "Obamacare".
Most people were stunned by this comment, given that Kissinger is on Medicare, as is everyone over age 65, and does not get his healthcare through the ACA exchanges,
Clearly, our President is clueless of even this simple fact that it is obvious that he does not know that the older, sicker people who were a big part of his election are now going to be the exact ones hurt the most by his executive order today. Yes, he is that ignorant.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Oct 12, 2017 - 06:31pm PT
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nah000:
Yury: gotta admit, given your, in general, conservative trending stances, i'm pretty surprised we ended up on opposite sides of the coin on even this subject... nah000, I apologize for a delayed response and for not reading Supertopo frequently enough.
As for my "conservative trending stances" I want to repeat that I support universal healthcare, free post-secondary education, subsidized childcare, democracy, freedom of speech, abortions and I am against capital punishment and any war.
I do not believe that my response can be measured using conservative/progressive scale.
In my experience peacenik-warmonger is a dimension independent of conservative-progressive dimension.
quick hypothetical question for you: you okay with bullets shot from neighbors guns flying over your own personal house? or just larger and foreign power launched ordinance flying over someone else's home country? Nuclear weapons is the only mean for North Koreans to prevent US aggression (please feel free to call it "peacekeeping operation").
So no treaty would stop them from building nukes.
Launching a ballistic missile from their own territory is the only reliable option for North Koreans because they do not have remote colonies/territories.
In this case the only logical direction is to launch it in Eastern direction (over Japan or Russia's Far East).
If Japanese are not happy with such launches, they need to offer other options (like locating North Korean test site on Japanese territory).
The same is true for Iran.
Sooner or later they will build a nuclear bomb.
We just need to get used to a world with more countries with nuclear weapons.
I do not see any real way to prevent proliferation.
We need to understand that this would significantly increase a risk of a nuclear war.
According to my prediction sooner or later nukes will be used in a real war.
So our main focus should be on limiting scope of such war.
Right now my main concern is an increased risk of war between US and Russia (because of continuous aggressive deployment of additional US troops and weapons near the border of Russia).
In this situation I want to see a clear procedure of escalation of a conventional war by Russia.
E.g. I want a declaration by Russia that in case of a war with US first they would hit European bases with nukes without hitting US mainland.
In this case they would send a message to US that they are serious and would allow US to disengage.
We need to have special talks between US ad Russia on policies for escalation/de-escalation of nuclear wars.
In 21st century talks about elimination of nuclear weapons are just smoke and mirrors.
I feel that the noise about North Korea is purely for US internal consumption as a way to distract Americans from more important issues.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Oct 12, 2017 - 07:11pm PT
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"Someone else will Pay " is another phrase for the poor and middle class are going to get raped so that Trumps owners can continue making obscene profits...Thanks Donald..You're the best...
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Oct 12, 2017 - 08:22pm PT
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open borders now?
what borders are open?
the Canadian one, they sneaking in?
surely not the southern one, with more "illegals" leaving than coming in, thanks to the Deporter in Chief, President Obama
somebody lose their grape picking job to a Salvadorian?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 12, 2017 - 08:37pm PT
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Where are these open borders? Because every time I leave the country it takes an hour or more to get back in. It would be nice to avoid that. Maybe I should buy a ⛵️
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Oct 12, 2017 - 09:33pm PT
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E.g. I want a declaration by Russia that in case of a war with US first they would hit European bases with nukes without hitting US mainland.
In this case they would send a message to US that they are serious and would allow US to disengage.
Really? And what happens to the NATO alliance in your scenario?
All those countries depend upon the US for nuclear deterrent, now forced to get their own nukes, and as you've stipulated, decreased stability in the world?
Don't think much of your strategy. Of course, the Russian declaration would be worth the same as all declarations by Russia, totally worthless and meaningless, because they have no honor.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Oct 13, 2017 - 05:55am PT
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Two more examples of Trump shitting his diaper.
Trump is eliminating the Obama Care cost sharing subsidies paid to insurers to help those with low incomes- "immediately".
He is rolling back clean air and water regulations and slashing the EPA budget by a third.
It's clear that the priority is to free up as much revenue as possible for a fat tax cut for the wealthy while fuking over the legacy of that Kenyan.
The sh#t filled diapers are disproportionately piling up on the low income Trump supporter and their families- this is terrible.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Oct 13, 2017 - 07:44am PT
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Once again Trump plays to his voting base - haters.
Donald Trump to become first president to speak at anti-LGBT hate group's annual summit
Donald Trump is to address the annual conference of an anti-LGBT group which has been classified as a hate group.
The US president will become the first sitting president to address social conservative activists and elected officials at the Value Voters Summit in Washington DC on Friday.
President Trump has addressed the event which is hosted by the Family Research Council three times in total and did so last year as the Republican presidential candidate.
The Family Research Council opposes and actively lobbies against equal rights for LGBT persons. The conservative Christian group campaigns against same-sex marriage, same-sex civil unions, LGBT adoption, abortion, embryonic stell-cell research, pornography and divorce.
Every year the conference sparks controversy for its choice of speakers and in 2010 the Southern Poverty Law Centre, a legal advocacy organisation which specialise in civil rights, went so far as to classify the Family Research Council as an anti-gay hate group.
Richard Cohen, the president of the Southern Poverty Law Centre, condemned President Trump's decision to address the event.
“By appearing at the Values Voter Summit, President Trump is lending the legitimacy of his office to a hate group that relentlessly demonizes LGBT people and works to deny them of their equal rights," he told The Independent.
"His appearance puts the lie to his campaign promise to be a friend to the LGBT community. Bigotry is not an American value, and our president should speak out against it.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-become-first-president-162200264.html
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 13, 2017 - 08:57am PT
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"Someone else will Pay " is another phrase for the poor and middle class are going to get raped so that Trumps owners can continue making obscene profits...Thanks Donald..You're the best.
Always.
Trump university is who he is.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Oct 13, 2017 - 11:06am PT
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"Someone else will Pay "
foo, jigum jack - I got mine so why would I care about anyone else?
said one chimpanzee to the other..
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 13, 2017 - 11:22am PT
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Trump plays to the supertopo forum politard clowns.
They spend all their time drooling at him.
You politards here are his st00pid bitches.
Yep ......
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Oct 13, 2017 - 12:43pm PT
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I build houses for the wealthy and by no large measure do I rely on fedral, state or local government funding for income or retirement.
So who is Trump playing?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Oct 13, 2017 - 01:53pm PT
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I build houses for the wealthy and by no large measure do I rely on fedral, state or local government funding for income or retirement.
So who is Trump playing?
well certainly not you, sir - from your job the assumption is those much worse off than you
but then again, perhaps he did play you, Contractor, assuming you get your own health insurance through a health insurance company that, as of today also, will lose people paying into your pool who will choose Trump's new cheaper plans with much less coverages, thereby depriving your pool of their money and causing your own monthly payments to go up sharply, so says the healthcare analysts
The good news, if that’s the way to put it, is many health plans have already accounted for Trump pulling the CSR payments in their 2018 rates. So people ineligible for subsidies are going to see higher premiums next year because of Trump’s threats, but that was already true before he formally decided to end the payments.
According to Axios, about 6.7 million people bought Obamacare-compliant coverage without subsidies, either on the law’s marketplaces or off them. Those are the people feeling the pain from this uncertainty.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/13/16468788/obamacare-open-enrollment-cost-sharing-reductions-trump
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Oct 13, 2017 - 01:57pm PT
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Hell bent to erase the black man's legacy. He will throw anyone under the bus to do it. He looked like a complete racist idiot with his "birther" crusade, and this is his "pay back" for being made to look like a fool. Nothing but a selfish, obese, heartless bastard feeding his deformed "tween" ego, and dragging this country through the shitter in the process.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Oct 13, 2017 - 01:59pm PT
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So who is Trump playing?
He's just projecting, no need to feed if ya know what I mean.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Oct 13, 2017 - 02:20pm PT
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trump a christian? more like a liar, and hypocrite.
trump is about as much a christian as I am. I am a proud atheist.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Oct 13, 2017 - 02:33pm PT
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Norton, poor comprehension on my post and my politics in general-sir! Haha.
I have Kaiser and pay part of my Superintendent's insurance by choice. I'm healthy and have a decent income so my insurance went up under Obamacare to help make up the cost of the elimination of "pre-existing conditions" for others, as I understand the increase- which I'm fine with.
The point I'm making is that I and other progressives here are willing to pay extra and work harder to help our fellow man.
Trump's economic plan and his intensions are to favor a sliver of society at the detriment of many. My reference, as to "being played" was to Werner, who I assume at one time, was paid in part by the state or some government agency- Perhaps I'm wrong there.
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