The Gun debate sandbox

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pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Mar 23, 2013 - 11:57am PT

if we all had a gun in our hand the killer would think again.

we ahould all have russian saiga.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Mar 23, 2013 - 11:59am PT

Does anyone make a mag larger than 5 rounds for the Saiga 20 gauge?

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Mar 23, 2013 - 12:01pm PT

True. But killers thinking again means the idiot has the chance to make another dumb choice. You can't guarantee that a gun will make a dummy make smart choice any more than logic can make jhedge quit ranting long enough to look at the big picture.

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Mar 23, 2013 - 12:16pm PT

i'm sure somebody would have killed the movie killer guy if we were all packing the heat like texas!

cya

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Mar 23, 2013 - 12:26pm PT

What I find interesting is that Americans, pro or anti on this subject, ALL eventually resort to guns to solve their problems.

jhedge thinks he needs guns (but let someone else carry it) to remove guns from everyone.

Ron just uses one himself (non-hypocritical) to diffuse a situation.

That's how your society is, plain and simple. You changed slavery with it. Civil war, etc. Canada solves the same problems without guns. Just pointing out that the country closest to the US in every way is just so far different - especially in regards to guns. No other country comes this close in comparison.

I guess what jhedge wants to do is change the fabric of a country of 360million people and become something it isn't. Good for the lad. Too bad he takes such an unrealistic and simplistic view of it. Guys like that are who the government counts on for their 'shock and awe' and 'mission accomplished' PR drives.

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Mar 23, 2013 - 12:28pm PT

If more guns made us safer, we'd have the lowest gun murder rate, and the UK the highest.

A valid point.

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Mar 23, 2013 - 12:31pm PT

No more valid than saying that trees makes us TP, so since the US has more trees they have more toilet paper. It's all in how they are used in the collective psyche.

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Mar 23, 2013 - 12:32pm PT

You didn't change slavery with slaves, you aren't going to change gun crime with guns.

Try changing gun crime with slaves, since you changed slaves with guns???

WBraun

climber

Mar 23, 2013 - 12:52pm PT

jghedge -- "We ended slavery ...."

You haven't ended any slaver.

All you've accomplished in the last 13 years is increased it dramatically.

Americans are so fuking stupid ......

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Mar 23, 2013 - 12:55pm PT

I have to agree Ron. We don't see that in my society. We have all the stats and laws that these guys are vying for, however, we actually have the guns that Ron has. A neighbor had full auto's a couple years ago (has since moved), and between 10 neighbors that I know about there are over 200 guns. So obviously if guns were the biggest issue, our neighborhood would have stats like the US.

We are missing the people element that when combined with the gun implement creates death.

You could change the people element and keep the implement and remove the death. But you can't keep the people element and change the implement and remove death. If you take your gun death stats out of your society, you are still multiples higher than Canada's homicide rates WITH gun crime included.

A5scott

Trad climber

Chicago

Mar 23, 2013 - 12:58pm PT

jghedge, of those 12,000 or less gun murders each year, 75% of them are gangs and criminals killing each other. It's still bad, still murder, and still needs to be lower, but it's not the average lawful citizen doing all that damage. Consider that 75% to be your lawless 3rd world component of the violent gun criminals. Cartels and drug gangs and professional criminals fighting each other

that leaves about 3,000 or less gun murders by what once were lawful citizens. 3,000/310,000,000 that leave us at about 1/100,000

So you want to rid the US of guns because of all the criminal uses of guns. That's the same as getting rid of cars because drunk drivers kill 12,000 each year.

Not to mention, you are assuming the overall murder rate will fall dramatically without guns. It won't. There are already more murders not involving a gun then with a gun. No guns, that component will rise.

scott

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Mar 23, 2013 - 01:02pm PT

You haven't ended any slaver.

All you've accomplished in the last 13 years is increased it dramatically.

Americans are so fuking stupid ......

Agreed. My friend works for www.exoduscry.org
Lots of work to do here.

I was using it as a point of how America turns to guns for issues. It may have done a better job to change slavery than it would to change gun ownership. And much more than it would do to change gun crime.

A5scott

Trad climber

Chicago

Mar 23, 2013 - 01:26pm PT

no jghedge, it shows that a small segment of criminals which does not nearly represent the majority of americans can cause some to place the blame on all guns and owners

scott

A5scott

Trad climber

Chicago

Mar 23, 2013 - 01:50pm PT

No, it's the way that numbers are interpreted. One could see that in the lead in to communist china when 45-60 million were killed, and might infer from the numbers that chinese as a whole, must be ultra violent and cruel to their neighbors. That would have been a wrong inference, as the crime and murders of their own people were committed by relatively few, that were the government. And don't read anything into that as me being an anarchist or anything like that, it's just an example that numbers need to be analyzed beyond the raw number

scott