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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Mar 22, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
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Funny, when gun murder rates don't support your view, they become opinions.
Getting facts from other sources is not letting others think for you.
So just cite yourself as your source, so you can claim to be an "independent thinker".
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Mar 22, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
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Okay, okay mono... :)
1) "Therefore, the Jacobs hypothesis, which was developed in distinctly dense urban areas of the Northeastern U.S., is supported in very diverse settings. Importantly, this environmental characteristic – population density – predicted more of the variance in violent crime than the majority of the other population characteristics in the model."
Christans and Speer, 2005. Behavior and Social Issues, 14, 113-127
see also: Jacobs, J. (1961). The life and death of great American cities. New York: Random House.
2) http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf#page=27
3) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html
4) Webster and Vernick, 2013. Reducing gun violence in America. The Johns Hopkins University Press.
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A5scott
Trad climber
Chicago
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Mar 22, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
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It's not a matter of what anyone needs. The question of need is irrelevant. We are free to buy whatever, whenever as long as it's legal. The only burden when buying a gun is that said guns won't be used illegally or transferred to someone who couldn't legally purchase. It's wrong to assume that most lawful citizens are straw sales people. Once someone has passed all the checks and done all the paperwork, they are free to purchase. We can't assume they are up to no good. Especially since 99% of legal owners don't use their gun for murder, coupled with the fact that about 75% of gun murders are criminals killing other criminals, as well as the fact that there are far more murders without a gun
Forming an opinion or hypothesis isn't such a bad thing. It's part of the scientific method. Fact is that one day there were no airplanes that could fly, and the next day there were. What if they said, oh, we have no facts that a plane could fly and stopped thinking and working on it.
Medieval Ireland is proud that they have no murder by sword, while England sword murders are high. They just squash heads with stones in ireland, because there are no swords.
murder is the same awful thing no matter how it's carried out. Some take more offense when a gun is used, but the end result is the same.
scott
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Mar 22, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
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It's not a matter of what anyone needs. The question of need is irrelevant. We are free to buy whatever, whenever as long as it's legal.
And that is why you will lose and look like a fool doing it. Your blind desire for presumed freedoms you don't need or use, but others clearly exploit, results in an unnecessarily high rate of gun related crime and murder. Limiting the number of guns you can buy over a period of time does not infringe on your right to keep and bear arms.
Go ahead and get your panties all bunched up about weapons bans, high cap mag limitation, etc. You have a semi-legitimate (but incredibly outdated) argument when the government attempts to make it illegal for you to keep and bear those. But restrictions on gun sales has nothing to do with your right to keep and bear arms.
It's wrong to assume that most lawful citizens are straw sales people.
Nobody said most lawful citizens are "straw sales people." That is more made up fairy tale bullsh#t... like "If tomorrow, there were no guns in the US" It reminds me of play time with my 8 year old niece... "what if tomorrow we woke up and the world was made of chocolate!"
It is a FACT that most criminals get their guns from "family or friends" through straw purchases. It only takes 100 criminals with a clean record to supply the 1200 guns a year used in all crimes committed in California.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Mar 22, 2013 - 01:52pm PT
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Your video is absurd. Like the NRA of 1960's has ANYTHING to do with the NRA of today. Give me a fuking break.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Mar 22, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
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Yur an idiot.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 22, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
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No CCW needed bill passed in Utah and is sitting on the Governor's desk.
3 options
veto (political death in this state)
sign into law
not sign, becomes law anyway
My guess is #3.
Get ready for legal concealed carry in Zion without a permit.
Shootouts over who gets a route? lol
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 22, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
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What new legislation would you like to see passed, Ron?
And prices are already coming back down for those so dastardly assualt rifles. You know, the ones CONGRESS backed away from like scalded dogs they are..
since you sarcastically chastise those politicians who know that there is no way an assault weapons ban can get enough support to become law?
I presume you then want such a ban to become law because you seem to criticize those who "back away" from such ban
and by the way, yes indeed, there IS enough support in congress to get a bill through although it will simply increase straw buyer penalties and expand background checks, and that IS what the President has spoken in favor of and will very likely become law
personally, none of that effects me and my own gun ownership but if such legislation helps to keep guns out of bad guys hands even just a little bit then I don't see anyone would object
so what legislation do YOU want to see passed, Ron?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 22, 2013 - 02:04pm PT
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Which Ron?
Herbert just vetoed the bill.
Hmmm. Probably his last term.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Mar 22, 2013 - 02:15pm PT
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Ron, the claim made in the first 25 seconds of your video, about the founding/starting of the NRA, contradicts what the NRA itself says about its founding. Not a SINGLE word about slaves...
http://www.nrahq.org/history.asp
I wonder how much they got paid to disseminate that bullshit.
And you sucked it up like a sponge and regurgitated it without even thinking to validate the content. Everyone lies, except for those you agree with... they MUST be telling the truth.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 22, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
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Back ground checks are fine and dandy. Lots of states
ok, so you do support more gun legislation
you support increased background checks
do you also support tougher penalties for straw buyers?
by the way, I still don't get why you criticized politicians for not being able to ban assault weapons
from this, you must want them banned/
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 22, 2013 - 02:43pm PT
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And Straw buyers?? The Dad that gets his son a 22 at the age of 11?(both being legal to own weapons)
Or you bought a glock .40 as a present to a favorite uncle for his birthday?? (both being legal to own weapons)
Common circumstances that would both be labelled illegal under new legislations?
wow, you really do not know what a straw buyer is, do you
both of your above examples are NOT definitions of straw buyers, not now, and certainly not in any new legislation
you should take the time to look up what a gun straw buyer is, Ron
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 22, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
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Ron,
please take the time to read the definition of a gun straw buyer
you clearly do not know
both of the "examples" you cited are entirely legal and are not straw buyers
really Ron, it just takes a minute, just a little intellectual curiosity, read, it won't hurt your head
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frank wyman
Mountain climber
montana
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Mar 22, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
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Ammunition is getting scarce...This morning I lucked out and was able to buy several cases of ammo. On the way home I stopped at a gas station where a gorgeous lady was filling up her tank.She looked at the ammo in my car and said in a very sexy voice "Im a big believer in Bartering, would you be interested in trading sex for ammo?"...I thought a few seconds and asked..."What kind of ammo you got"...
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A5scott
Trad climber
Chicago
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Mar 22, 2013 - 04:02pm PT
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I don't imagine legislation to limit the number of sales to 1 per person/year ever passing. Talking about that seems about as useful as asking what if we woke up and the world was made of chocolate. questions never hurt nonetheless.
seems like the punishment isn't a huge deterrent for straw buyers... 2.5 yrs or so max 10. There has to be a way so person to person sales can exist, while at the same time being able to check the status of buyer and seller.
scott
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 22, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
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"I know what straw buyers are Norton,"
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Mar 22, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
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Haha, you didn't 'win' against the assault weapon ban. It was always a long shot.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Mar 22, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
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She knew it. It's the art of negotiation. I'll give up a long-shot, in return for something else. And your senator Reid is in control. Sucks for ya doesn't it.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Mar 22, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
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And you claim victory?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Mar 22, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
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Instead, why not have the feds just expand on the brady check info to include the model and serial number of the gun being purchased? that would take making a new form to include two more boxes on it for thier computer program...TOO SIMPLE?
That seems like a good idea to me. I trust you will write your congressperson expressing your support for including such information in background checks.
How about a limit to how many guns a person can buy each year? How many do you buy a year? How many new guns a year do you think is reasonable for your typical gun enthusiasts?
The elephant being eaten a fork at a time hardly notices the tiny bites until those tiny bites accumulate and by then its too late.
I want to understand this because I've always wondered what elephant (and dolphin) tastes like. The elephant represents YOUR rights as a gun owner. The little bites with a fork is the legislation slowly taking them away. And the elephant is too dense to realize the first time it gets stuck with a fork? You sure it isn't that the elephant is so paranoid that it freaks out at the sight of a fork and spreads his irrational fear like a virus through the rest of the elephant population until they are all too forking stupid to realize the fork is used to keep them out of their own sh#t?
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