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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 21, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
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Asscott,
Mechrist, i noticed you didn't say anything about the 1.2 Billion served by abortion.
what in the world does "abortions" have to do with this gun debate thread?
why would you ask Mechrist why he did not comment about abortions?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Mar 21, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
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I thought it was relevant to a conversation about murder.
This is a "conversation" about guns.
Yes it is possible to buy grenades and explosives, through underground markets. they aren't used in as many crimes because ammo for a 9mm is cheap and readily available
Handguns are also readily available. Why? Because anyone with a clean record can legally buy a gun a month, every month... then turn around and sell it for $500 and a bag of meth.
Mechrist, people exercising their rights are idiots? who taught you that idea? good job with the name calling though.
No, people who act like idiots and say idiotic things are idiots.
Gov. Cuomo just banned any mags larger than 7 rounds is their way of punishing lawful citizens, cause when the average citizen gets caught with 8 round magazine they are now felons.
Obviously, an average citizen with an 8 round mag is no longer an average citizen, they are a criminal. In 1913 someone with a vile of cocaine could be considered an average citizen... in 1914 they would be a criminal. In 1972 if a woman got an abortion she was a criminal... in 1973 she could be an average citizen. That's how laws work. Pretty simple.
criminals, the ones that commit 75% of gun murder, will pay no attention to.
Because they will just buy what is available through straw sales. I'll bet money the number of 8 round mags used in crimes will drop once the current supply from straw sales dwindles.
Is that not a punishment? Turning lawful citizens to criminals? Probably won't pass, but they sure are trying
No, it isn't turning lawful citizens into criminals. It is turning those who choose not to live by the law into criminals. Big difference. And it certainly isn't punishment if it doesn't even pass.
Mechrist, i noticed you didn't say anything about the 1.2 Billion served by abortion.
In a discussion about guns... yeah, no sh#t...
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A5scott
Trad climber
Chicago
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Mar 21, 2013 - 08:36pm PT
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hey norton, thanks for the name calling. I don't think that's how my name is spelled
scott
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 21, 2013 - 08:43pm PT
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(didn't mechrist say he was out of here?)
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 21, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
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Oopps
It was NOT intentional
Just quick dumb typing
My apologies
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A5scott
Trad climber
Chicago
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Mar 21, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
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no worries norton
I understand it's off topic, and this is the last I'll say about the abortion thing... I'm just trying to wrap my head around how its totally fine to end well more than 1 million lives each year in the US through abortion, while 30,000 die by guns and that's the worst thing ever. I understand that it's legal, and i fully support that. that's the answer then i guess.
I haven't read all of the posts here, and when I picked it up, the conversation was tilted toward murder
scott
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 21, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
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I'm just trying to wrap my head around how its totally fine to end well more than 1 million lives each year in the US through abortion, while 30,000 die by guns and that's the worst thing ever. I understand that it's legal, and i fully support that. that's the answer then i guess.
ah, now I understand
you are saying WHY is the outrage over ABORTION not the SAME outrage as mass gun murders, right?
yes, abortion has long ago been decided as legal and constitutional, as is the 2nd Amendment
and this clearly bothers you, because if I read you right, abortion to you is "murder", just as the murders caused by guns
you have every right to feel that way, and your view on this is increasingly in the minority
this country has evolved on this issue and no longer defines "murder" as ending an unwanted zygote
Scott, I guess you won't be getting much sympathy for your position on this thread, I am sure there are lots and lots of religious web sites that agree with your abortion position to visit
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Mar 21, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
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Fascinating thread... guns and abortion! In the meantime look what I came up with.
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A5scott
Trad climber
Chicago
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Mar 21, 2013 - 09:42pm PT
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I'm non practicing catholic and 100% pro choice
The comment about full auto guns was more about having fun shooting targets than self defense. I don't own any guns, but do enjoy target shooting
Sympathy is useless, not looking for any
Scott
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A5scott
Trad climber
Chicago
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Mar 21, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
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I never said I thought abortion was murder. It's not. I said why I brought it into the conversation. Nothing more to read into it.
Scott
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Mar 21, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
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I don't get it
How exactly am I being "hurt" or "compromised" by any seriously likely to pass federal legislation?
how would expanded background checks effect me, can't see how
how would much tougher penalties for straw buyers effect me, can't see how
I sincerely appreciate a gun owner expressing support for these laws, but since you asked:
Background checks and tighter penalties for straw buyers WILL reduce the number of guns sold to criminals. This hurts the gun manufacturers bottom line. If criminals have less guns, fewer non-criminals will want guns, so gun sales will fall even more. Lower sales volume will make the guns you want more expensive...hopefully.
More seriously, I do think that if effective legislation passes, there could be an increase in burglaries as criminals move to the next easiest source of guns, the idiots who keep guns unsecured in their homes and cars. I wish some of the proposed new laws would require the appropriate level of responsibility that comes with owning a gun.
TE
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A5scott
Trad climber
Chicago
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Mar 21, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
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I compared the murder rate across the map because it's hard to find another country with the sheer number of guns the US has.
If tomorrow, there were no guns in the US, not in private hands, no criminal, no lawful citizen has a gun. What happens to the total murder rate? Non gun murders are about 15,000 now. Which direction will that number go, if it changes...
scott
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Mar 21, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
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If tomorrow, there were no guns in the US...
hahahaa... wtf?!
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A5scott
Trad climber
Chicago
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Mar 21, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
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It's not really possible to compare gun murder rate between two countries where one, guns are outlawed and few are owned privately, and the other where there are nearly enough guns to arm the entire population. Which is why I was checking out the overall murder rate
of course without guns, the gun murder rate is zero. I was asking about your opinion of what will happen to the total murder rate.
scott
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 22, 2013 - 12:57am PT
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Fact: !!!
Americans should NEVER give up their guns.
Never.
Not to lying, cheating and terrorizing people who claim they are protecting them, the so called Govt. of the people.
If the the United States Government was honest then there would be no problem ......
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A5scott
Trad climber
Chicago
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Mar 22, 2013 - 01:36am PT
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thanks Ron for having my back a bit!
scott
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saghi
Trad climber
Muskogee, OK
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Mar 22, 2013 - 10:38am PT
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Fact: !!!
Americans should NEVER give up their guns.
Never.
Not to lying, cheating and terrorizing people who claim they are protecting them, the so called Govt. of the people.
If the the United States Government was honest then there would be no problem ......
This is my main reason for being on the "gun nut" side. I have very few guns and even less ammunition. I enjoy shooting and my wife does too. We do not need guns and, provided there are no drastic changes, could live without them and be perfectly safe.
The government is out of control and DOES NOT have our best interest in mind. If you can't see that, you are blind. It is illegal to murder and for a violent criminal to own a gun. That is as much say as we should allow the government to have about this issue. The amount of murders we have is a problem with US! It is not because we have too much freedom or don't have enough laws.
Until something changes with our government, I will always be on whatever side limits the government the most.
I have no sources for this OPINION so go ahead and call me an idiot "gun nut".
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 22, 2013 - 10:38am PT
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"and lots of places worse than here."
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Mar 22, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
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Why is it so hard to understand facts?
1) Violent crime is correlated with population density.
2) Violent crime committed with guns is more likely to result in murder.
3) Most criminals get their guns through straw sales.
4) Stricter federal gun regulations will reduce the number of guns available to criminals through straw sales.
Pretty fuking simple.
Nobody has answered my questions yet... how many guns do you buy every year? Who needs to purchase a new gun every month? Why not cut the limit to one gun purchase a year and cut the potential for straw sales by 1/12? Who here would that affect?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mar 22, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
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jghedge writes:
"If you have no sources, what are you basing your opinion on?"
That's funny, and you probably can't even see it!
It appears Saghi's done his own thinking, and come to his own conclusions on this one. By constantly citing someone else's opinions ("sources"), jghedge comes across like he's letting others do his thinking for him.
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