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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Dr. F. said: My criteria is that God has to be "something."
This insistence is the result of being entirely trapped in the discursive mind, which can only work with "things" that have qualities we can measure and contrast and so forth. It is simply the discursive/evaluating mind interpreting and objectifying "reality" on it's own terms - and be glad the mind does this or we'd never get things done. But the evaluating mind's limitations are strongly felt and known when it runs up against "spirit," or the indivisible "all."
Spirituality is not beholden to "things," hence the circular argument if you require "God" to be the way your mind has decided "he" must be (material - "something" we can wrangle with instruments) lest "He" is not real.
What, then, is "spirit?" (Hint - not an idea, a feeling, a thought, a sensation, a memory, an imagined image, a sound, etc., all of which are "things." Nor yet is Spirit a "fiction," a "belief," etc., which are merely appraisals and evaluations of some thing, or the lack of thingness.)
See how the evaluating mind grasps after things? That's a good starting point.
JL
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go-B
climber
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Because there IS God, His Son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit!
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Binks
climber
Uranus
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Thank God for Soundgarden...
Take, if you want a slice
If you want a piece
If it feels alright
Break, if you like the sound
If it gets you up
If it brings you down
Share, if it makes you sleep
If it sets you free
If it helps you breathe
Don't come over here
And piss on my gate
Save it just keep it
Off my wave
Cry, if you want to cry
If it helps you see
If it clears your eyes
Hate, if you want to hate
If it keeps you safe
If it makes you brave
Pray, if you want to pray
If you like to kneel
If you like to lay
Don't come over here
And piss on my gate
Save it just keep it
Off my wave
Keep it off my wave
Keep it off my wave
Keep it off my wave
My wave
Cry, if you want to cry
If it helps you see
If it clears your eyes
Hate, if you want to hate
If it keeps you safe
If it makes you brave
Take, if you want a slice
If you want a piece
If it feels alright
Don't come over here
And piss on my gate
Save it just keep it
Off my wave
Keep it off my wave
Keep it off my wave
My wave
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go-B
climber
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Psalm 93:4, Mightier than the thunders of many waters, mightier than the waves of the sea, the Lord on high is mighty!
Isaiah 51:15, I am the Lord your God, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar— the Lord of hosts is his name.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Now that is a beautiful video! Reaffirms the exquisite relations between physical laws, energy and motion, mathematics, living things and human perception. Thanks for posting it.
Mathematics is a reflection of causality. Applied to biology, it may be used to expose and express the mechanistic nature inherent in all living things.
Hurray for mathematics. The language of mathematics. The tool of mathematics. The beauty of mathematics.
Make Astrophes proud. Embrace causality.
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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the god delusion runs deep.
it goes back a long time.
But few can see that there is no god.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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What makes chimpanzees go?
Is there a ghost (or ghostly spirit) in the body machine that pulls levers?
that leads to chimpanzee behavior, that makes the chimpanzee go.
On the other hand...
If there is no ghostly spirit driving the flesh, then the conclusion is inescapable: it means flesh and blood working through cells and tissues, brought forth by evolution and natural selection, is capable of mighty exquisite powers.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Whew, talk about paradigm shifts in attitudes and thinking:
Modern: Flesh and blood drives the flesh and blood, so it's time we respected it for the marvel it is. (HFCS)
Ancient: A ghost or ghostly spirit drives the flesh and blood, so there is good reason to "pass over" flesh and blood, to discount it, for it is only of secondary importance if that relative to the ghost. (Go-be, Klimmer, Rocjok, Trip7)
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go-B
climber
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Psalm 32, Blessed Are the Forgiven
A Maskil of David.
1 Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven,
whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man against whom the Lord counts no iniquity,
and in whose spirit m there is no deceit.
3 For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away
through my groaning all day long.
4 For day and night your hand was heavy upon me;
my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer. Selah
5 I acknowledged my sin to you,
and I did not cover my iniquity;
I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,”
and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah
6 Therefore let everyone who is s godly
offer prayer to you at a time when you may be found;
surely in the rush of great waters,
they shall not reach him.
7 You are a hiding place for me;
you preserve me from trouble;
you surround me with shouts of deliverance. Selah
8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go;
I will counsel you with my eye upon you.
9 Be not like a horse or a mule, without understanding,
which must be curbed with bit and bridle,
or it will not stay near you.
10 Many are the sorrows of the wicked,
but steadfast love surrounds the one who trusts in the Lord.
11 Be glad in the Lord, and rejoice, O righteous,
and shout for joy, all you upright in heart!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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But back to the original question: Why do so many believe in god?
Short answer: an Afterlife
Longer answer: Modern higher consciousness primates, humans, want very very
badly to believe that physical death is not the end of their existence.
Evidence of this is found as far back as 15-20,000 years ago when burial
grounds are unearthed that show people laid to rest along with some of
their favorite artifacts, weapons, adornments, to use in case they would be
reborn in some kind of conscious afterlife.
In seems we are hard wired to want to believe that somehow we go on and on.
Almost every religion has as it's core this belief in an afterlife.
The very structure of religion is to promote and legitimatize through ritual
preparation for an afterlife that both rewards and punishes earthly behavior.
The concept of a deity goes nicely along with the strong desire for leadership in the hereafter.
If blind salamanders had our consciousness, they would want the same.
Sadly, wanting something is only a concept, and contributes nothing to
the concept being true, or untrue. It is just a desire, like wanting to eat.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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I'd like to take this opportunity to be more clear about something.
I "believe in" Hypercrates. Hypercrates is either (a) the personification of fate or (b) the personification of higher powers (of fate). Just as the Grim Reaper is the personification of death. That's it.
It's only by extension and it's only because it's handy... that I sometimes call Hypercrates "God Hypercrates" or simply "God." (Similar to Plumber Joe.)
Humans like to personify. Over the years, it's been clarifying and helpful for me to have Hypercrates (hii puhr' kruh tees) as a personification.
Again, I don't first and foremost think of Hypercrates as a God any more than I think of Mother Nature as a God or the Grim Reaper as a God.
But it sure is handy sometimes to have Hypercrates to contrast with Jehovah. As needed.
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Oxymoron
Big Wall climber
total Disarray
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Make Death your bitch.
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go-B
climber
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Proverbs 9:10, The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Because they are afraid of death.
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krutley
climber
here, now
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May 10, 2010 - 12:05am PT
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Cause we all have the right to choose of our own free will. Just don't choose for anyone outside yourself.
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mushroom
Trad climber
USA
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May 10, 2010 - 12:07am PT
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"Belief in God" is an oversimplification of a very complex topic. Lets take a look at how many different faucets God can encompass:
1. Did the universe come to be or was there a creator behind it?
2. Are there recognized universal laws? Gravity? Karma? Cause and effect?
3. Is there a judge who decides whether our actions are ethical, providing, or limiting from us, access to some reward-land at the end?
4. Is there a all-powerful entity that can even break said laws of #2 (aka miracles)?
5. Is there knowledge or do we really not know anything for certain at all?
This is just the beginning of the faucets that God can encompass.
Next comes the argument of the logical positivists: does your statement about belief in the supernatural really mean anything at all? Sure, one person can say, "I believe in God" and another, "I don't believe in God", but perhaps these are both ridiculous statements that don't have any meaning whatsoever. It is, indeed, possible for us to just piece words together by the laws of grammar and come up with meaningless statements: "I believe clouds give great hugs". What?
The problem with the American perspective on the super natural is this: people are criticized for their lack of faith in God. Perhaps, rather, our tribulations with faith are all part of our path through life. Periods of believing and not believing are both totally natural processes.
I prescribe to the latter. How you feel at any given time is part of the natural course of things. Your delving into and out of faith is all part of the path. I avoid the use of the world God and prefer terms like "the central order of things" and "infinite intelligence" because these are the specific answers to my aforementioned questions which I attest to. The word "god" is just too easily misconstrued and I wouldn't want to be confused with one of Them. Knaw mean?
To answer your question, it's a mixture of society and lack of thought. People don't spend the time to do the thinking to figure out what they make of the world, but society has a nice corner it'd love to push you into.
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krutley
climber
here, now
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May 10, 2010 - 12:10am PT
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wc - dont know where you got the pie chart, but sitting here in the middle of Hindu belt, N India, I'm looking at >50% disordered. I may be ugly, and murkan, but i aint ugly murkan.
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