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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 18, 2012 - 12:56pm PT
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It's easy to think of climbing as just a fun and challenging activity done on rocks, with some local climber collating a bunch of information into a guidebook every few years. Unfortunately, the whole process involves human beings, and interpersonal relationships, and becomes personal/political very quickly. I'm quite impressed with the effort that Marc Bourdon went to, to ensure that the new edition of Squamish Select was as objective and accurate as possible. Unravelling the tangled skeins of some routes' history isn't an easy job, not to mention "overwritten" routes, and the problems of revisionism. Marc seems to have been quite thorough, and received and factored in input from a variety of sources.
No guidebook or climbing history is ever "The" guide or "The" history to an area - historiography has learned us that. And none is entirely accurate. But some are certainly more accurate and have a wider perspective than others.
I did my best to persuade Marc to include North North Arete, as a classic moderate climb, without success. He insisted on including some 5.12+ ten pitch route on Zodiac Wall instead, one of those routes that looks good on paper but which will rarely be done. Perspective...
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
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Greetings from the top of the apron! Hope everyone is out enjoying the nice weather! Kieran and i got up early to go do angels crest, but apparently a 7am start on a saturday nets 7 or so parties in front of you, so we bailed. Then came over and ran up bottom line and over the rainbow.
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Relic
Social climber
Vancouver, BC
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Aug 18, 2012 - 04:36pm PT
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That's funny you say that Anders about the thoroughness of Marc's guide. One of the only FA's I did on the Chief got totally written over. But mostly it is a great and accurate guide.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2012 - 06:30pm PT
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Speaking of climbs that got omitted how did hanging gardens not make the cut?
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Scrubber
climber
Straight outta Squampton
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Aug 19, 2012 - 02:30am PT
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Speaking of climbs that got omitted how did hanging gardens not make the cut?
I was about three days late getting the info to Marc on that route. The routes he chose for that area are squeezed into a two page spread, and unfortunately there isn't enough material for another two pages at the Papoose. Each area starts with a new spread and intro, so it had to work in two page increments. This sounds like it caused considerable frustration in certain spots trying to fit stuff in with late additions and pressure to include certain routes.
It is included in the downloadable updates section from his website.
http://www.quickdrawpublications.com/Free%20Downloads/Squamish%20Select%20Updates.pdf
K
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Relic
Social climber
Vancouver, BC
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Aug 19, 2012 - 12:26pm PT
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This is NFR, coming to you all live from the first pitch of Cruel Shoes! Posting from Relic's account, as I have neglected to bring my own phone, NFR, TKC, and Relic set out to make Hamie proud!
Stay tuned....
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2012 - 01:46pm PT
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Awesome flick! Thanks for the link Tami! Hamish is popping up all over these days! :) Where are you Mr Frasier? Haven't heard from you for awhile. ;)
Cool pictures Jim! They illustrate it well. It's all about the layback and keeping those feet high! When i led it i was feeling the moves, but the endurance was severely lacking. The pillar and sword whooped my butt!
I was about three days late getting the info to Marc on that route. The routes he chose for that area are squeezed into a two page spread, and unfortunately there isn't enough material for another two pages at the Papoose. Each area starts with a new spread and intro, so it had to work in two page increments. This sounds like it caused considerable frustration in certain spots trying to fit stuff in with late additions and pressure to include certain routes.
Thanks Kris! I had a feeling it was something like that. Too bad, excellent route imho. It seemed like it was seeing some ascents so hopefully the "publicity" did it some good.
Sleeping won out over climbing this morning, hence this post, but Sandra and i are going to go get some in this afternoon.
This is NFR, coming to you all live from the first pitch of Cruel Shoes! Posting from Relic's account, as I have neglected to bring my own phone, NFR, TKC, and Relic set out to make Hamie proud!
Stay tuned....
Ya boys SEND IT!!
STOLEN FROM RELICS FACEBOOK ACCOUNT!
Derek Woolgar photo
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Relic
Social climber
Vancouver, BC
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Aug 19, 2012 - 02:55pm PT
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This is tkc, posting live from the bottom of the runout pitch. I sharted while belaying nate across the third pitch and need some tp bad
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 19, 2012 - 03:01pm PT
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This is MH, posting live from his desk where he's hard at work on something that probably isn't all that important. Oh well.
Knowing how much busted glass is embedded in the ground in and around the campground at the Chief, I'd never walk barefoot there.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2012 - 03:49pm PT
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Wow you guys were still on cruel shoes at 1145? Gonna be a long one!
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Hoser
climber
vancouver
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Aug 19, 2012 - 04:17pm PT
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Is it really a great "Select" guide?
I have seen many select guides and they are THE select routes of the area, this is just a regular guide that sort of has some weird criteria for making it in the book.
There are loads of routes that are in there that havent been clean in a decade or more...I dont get it.
I would say, at best its a book that will fill the void for those that dont have Kevins book and need something till the comprehensive guide comes out.
There are the same mistakes of topos with one grade route descriptions with another...personally if you have Kevins book and managed to download the topos of the newer climbs I wouldnt bother purchasing the new book.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2012 - 04:26pm PT
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But what about all the pretty pictures hoser? I for one do like the new format, but do notice the limitations.
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Relic
Social climber
Vancouver, BC
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Aug 19, 2012 - 04:31pm PT
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Ya, theres three of us so it's going a bit slower.
Spray alert: Luke just redpointed the Pillar!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 19, 2012 - 04:34pm PT
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By definition, a select guide is ... select. Hence to some extent reflecting the author's character, and never including, or excluding, everything that might be. Within that limitation, the new guide seems to me to be accurate, and fairly present the routes. Its market may be more visiting climbers than locals, of course, although there's an awful lot of climbs in it. Hell, in the 1970s we were kept busy by the 100 or so climbs that then existed. No need for 500 or 1,000 or more.
A comprehensive guide reflects the author's character and biases in a different way. With 55 years of history, it could hardly be otherwise. That's historiography, and that's why wise authors farm out their writings to reviewers and editors, to minimize the subjective element.
FWIW, if I did a select guide to Squamish and area, it would only include routes up to perhaps 5.11, and maybe not many that hard. In other words, climbs within the reach of most climbers. Maybe there'd be a separate market for a select hardperson's guide, but it mightn't be all that large.
"Luke just redpointed the Pillar". You either onsight the Pillar, without hangs, or you don't.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2012 - 06:29pm PT
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What? You can redpoint the pillar! He hanged last time on it so it sounds like he got it clean this time! Congrats!
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2012 - 11:20pm PT
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Wow. I just realized that we beat the Wings of Steel thread recently, which was the largest on topic thread I have ever personally witnessed on this site! Great work guys and gals! Thanks to all the contributers large and small!
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2012 - 12:49am PT
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Perry that is an amazing idea. Certainly anyone who has read the 70's thread is well aware of some of the history there. We were actually talking about throwing a little social on psyche ledge one of these days... Maybe after the fire danger has receeded a little?
How's about some pics from cruel shoes Relic? NFR?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Aug 20, 2012 - 01:08am PT
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We could test the waters with a get together one evening this summer.
Will there be vomiting?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2012 - 01:28am PT
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Sounds good to me! Whatever works for everyone else...
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Aug 20, 2012 - 01:30am PT
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This is somewhat OT, but who cares?
It's been around 32-34C here in the Koots for the last two weeks. Sometimes the friction isn't what it should be, and sometimes the black rock is smokin' but we're not complaining. Fortunately we have lots of creeks, rivers and lakes to cool off in. Floating the Slocan River, in a fully provisioned Explorer 200 from Wally-Mart, is a great way to spend a day, or two or three.... Last year we named a new 2 pitch climb "Lazy River", on the Polished Wall, as it was moderate, fun and wandered around a bit, just like floating.
Today we were at Slocan again, struggling up local faves like "Industrial Disease", "Booms and Busts" and "Funky Earth Chick Mother". How's that for a Kootenay name? Bobby N led Salamander 11a, but I sat that one out--literally--in a lawn chair at the base. Chairs and something to swim in are 'de rigeur' here, as they say in Euro-speak.
You can do this silly stuff in fresh water! Not recommended at Squish.
EDIT: Did someone say "Test the waters?" ha ha We did, and they were GREAT!
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