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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Jun 23, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
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I think this would be better if we had a real campfire.
Terror implies commison of violence, eh?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
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Read the article, one third of the staff was intimidated into leaving. Lavoy Finicum was aiding William Keebler in scouting a bombing target (see link at top of page).
Taking over a federal property while heavily armed with assault rifles is an act of violence.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Jun 23, 2016 - 08:42pm PT
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terrorism...
a present day boogey man of a word... like "communist" before it, it is used to control perception rather than to elucidate it... even the random house dictionary definition is uselessly non-specific: "the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."
how is that different than "war"? wiki at least says "often targeting civilians" which gets closer to the heart of the matter...
and from that perspective the most successful application of terrorism has to, without question, be hiroshima and nagasaki...
so why isn't the descriptor embraced in that case? i've never heard those bombings described as successful acts of terrorism, even though they, due to their targeting of civilians, most certainly were... everybody knows the entire goal was to shock the japanese with ruthlessness beyond their wildest nightmares, so that they would know what would continue to fall on their civilians if they didn't comply...
and so what makes our use of terrorism justified, and others unpardonable...
besides ours being successful in bringing about surrender, of course?
and just so we're clear, the point of the above is not to take any positions on anybody's use of terrorism... that is a separate debate...
i'm only pointing out that if we are to use the word terrorism/terrorist as more than a debate silencing pejorative, we must accept that we in the west chose to employ terrorism, when it benefitted us.
if we can't call our own actions by the words that objectively describe them, how on god's green earth are we going to ever clearly see and/or possibly understand the world that surrounds us?
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jun 23, 2016 - 09:39pm PT
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McVeigh was protesting the Iraq war
No he wasn't.
Timothy James McVeigh (April 23, 1968 – June 11, 2001) was an American terrorist convicted[3] and executed[4] for the detonation of a truck bomb in front of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995.[5] Commonly referred to as the Oklahoma City bombing, the attack killed 168 people and injured over 600.[6] According to the United States Government, it was the deadliest act of terrorism within the United States prior to the September 11 attacks, and remains the most significant act of domestic terrorism in United States history.
McVeigh, a Persian Gulf War veteran, sought revenge against the federal government for its handling of the Waco siege, which ended in the deaths of 76 people exactly two years before the bombing, as well as for the Ruby Ridge incident in 1992. McVeigh hoped to inspire a revolt against the supposedly tyrannical federalist government. He was convicted of eleven federal offenses and sentenced to death. His execution was carried out in a considerably shorter amount of time than average after his trial, as most convicts on death row in the United States spend many more years waiting for their executions. Four years after his conviction, McVeigh was executed by lethal injection on June 11, 2001, at the Federal Correctional Complex in Terre Haute, Indiana.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 24, 2016 - 12:23am PT
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I'm sure there'll be a pardon in the offing if trump gets elected.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 24, 2016 - 05:34am PT
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In other news, a Grand Jury is researching whether the FBI acted appropriately in the Lavoy Finnicum shooting.
I'll give you three guesses on how the Grand Jury will decide and the first guess is free.
More secret discussions by a secret panel to declare in the end: We've investigated ourselves and found no wrong doing!"
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 24, 2016 - 06:42am PT
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Lavoy who? Isn't he that terrorist who was planning on bombing BLM facilities?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 24, 2016 - 06:58am PT
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Lavoy who? Isn't he that terrorist who was planning on bombing BLM facilities?
Exactly, you know...the one that the FBI was taking pot shots at but then tried to deny it when called on the carpet.
And to think, you retards want gun control when the FBI won't even fess up to doing something so dangerous that a redneck shooting hogs in Texas would consider too risky to try.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 25, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
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Federal undercover agents work with nutballs looking to do harm all the time.
Yeah, like they did with Randy Weaver.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 29, 2016 - 11:33am PT
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Harney County Oregon rejects recall of Grasty
http://registerguard.com/rg/news/local/34522501-75/harney-county-voters-reject-recall-of-bundy-foe.html.csp
A local official who opposed the armed takeover of an Oregon wildlife refuge has prevailed in a recall vote.
Harney County Judge Steve Grasty, the top administrator of the sparsely populated high-desert county, faced a recall vote after he refused to allow the armed protesters to use a county building for a meeting. Unofficial results Tuesday night showed about 70 percent of voters rejecting the recall effort.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 29, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
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Jon! That's great news!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 29, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
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Good for the people of Harney County!!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jun 29, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
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I hope the people behind the recall are going to foot the bill for the election costs..?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 29, 2016 - 09:05pm PT
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Same people voted to NOT turn the Owyhees into a Monument and Wilderness.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 29, 2016 - 09:05pm PT
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Harney County is not strongly anti-government. The Hammonds were basically outsiders, having moved to the area in the 1960s. The locals are not as confrontational as the Hammonds were. Obviously the Bundys over-estimated the local support they would get. That is reflected in the wide margin of support for Grasty. Message to the seditionists "GTFO of our county"
Essy - it is called apples and oranges
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 29, 2016 - 09:11pm PT
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Escopeta! Re your post:
Same people voted to NOT turn the Owyhees into a Monument and Wilderness.
And I agree with those fine Harney County voters all the way.
Why do you hate our political system & government?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 29, 2016 - 09:12pm PT
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I didn't say they were strongly anti-government. I merely stated a fact. Just as you did.
EDIT: I absolutely love how you try to dissect the dynamics of a small town in Oregon from two states away. That is truly the best part of all of this.
Somehow you are equating a lack of support for the Bundy Idiots and being pro-government......and you want to educate me on apples and oranges. Lol
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Jun 29, 2016 - 09:47pm PT
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*
*
A local official who opposed the armed takeover of an Oregon wildlife refuge has prevailed in a recall vote.
Harney County Judge Steve Grasty, the top administrator of the sparsely populated high-desert county, faced a recall vote after he refused to allow the armed protesters to use a county building for a meeting. Unofficial results Tuesday night showed about 70 percent of voters rejecting the recall effort. Right on.....Thanks for the heads-up..Mr Jon Beck.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
So beautiful...
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