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WBraun
climber
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Aug 30, 2017 - 08:10am PT
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If the govt. allows infrastructure building in high potential flood and earthquake zones than it's also their faults.
Since the govt is for the people by the people then everyone is at fault.
Therefore we are ultimatly st000pid Americans ......
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c wilmot
climber
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Aug 30, 2017 - 08:17am PT
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why did all those people go move to those risky places anyway
Because the land was cheap. Not everyone can afford a fancy house in the city...
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 30, 2017 - 08:28am PT
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When natural disasters happen everyone suffers.
They built those oil rigs and refineries in hurricane zones.
America runs on oil.
Now gas will go up and everything even more expensive again.
I made a bad choice to live America where there's nothing but DMT's who blame everything on everyone else :-)
I should have stayed in the jungle where bananas grow and are free to eat.
My bad ..... :-)
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Aug 30, 2017 - 09:17am PT
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 30, 2017 - 09:19am PT
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Its time conservatives walked their talk and paid their own goddamn bills, right?
Yeah, like that's going to happen!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 30, 2017 - 09:20am PT
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Trump in no more insane than any other two bit real estate hustler.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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Aug 30, 2017 - 09:36am PT
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Sorry, DMT, the only body that can prevent the stoopid Americans and Canadians from building in higher risk areas, and effectively manage construction in such areas, is government. Of course individuals will often take the (apparently) most economical option. And much development in high risk area pre-dates effective government regarding such things. But we know better now, and it'll take time to change. But we have to start somewhere.
As both DMT and Werner are in high-risk areas, both from flooding and earthquake, I'm sure you agree.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 30, 2017 - 09:36am PT
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Even in visiting ravaged Texas, Trump keeps the focus on himself
The president has talked about TV ratings and predicted that he’ll soon be congratulating himself. He had yet to mention those killed, call on Americans to help, or directly encourage donations.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 30, 2017 - 10:04am PT
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Its great to see Canadian companies and the Mexican Govt stepping up to provide assistance to those in need.
If any idiots think that "going it alone" is the way to go, this is an example of why it matters that we have strong alliances. The response to 911, also, demonstrated that.
The Bannons of the country, who view all foreigners as "marks" for exploitation, and enemies to be stiff-armed, should be banned from the country.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 30, 2017 - 10:18am PT
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The primary irresponsibility belongs to all the folks that built their homes of straw, on wet ground.
Just like the primary irresponsibility for homes going up in wild fires belongs to those home owners who located there. Its our own irresponsibility.
And all those people from Vancouver to San Diego living right over giant cracks in the earth - us, in other words.
We cast the blame on the government we created to prop up our poor decisions and ease our troubles when the big bad wolf comes calling. How could big oil let this happen, I'm gonna sue.
Those childhood stories come back to haunt us as adults, huh? The big bag wolf is always out there.
DMT, I allow that you may be posting tongue-in-cheek, but responding to what you wrote, I agree with MH. I do not think it is reasonable to expect that the average homeowner should have a degree in engineering, water management, earthquake-ology, fire science, to be able to make these decisions. We have to depend upon gov't, who employs all these people.
It is instructive, I think, to read about some of the flood disasters in Ca:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Flood_of_1862
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_flood_of_1938
And what happened as a result. LA was basically destroyed by the 1938 flood, but the measures that were enacted as a result, caused the much bigger event in 2005, to essentially amount to relatively little.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_County_flood_of_2005
It will be interesting to see if Houston is rebuilt in a similar fashion to mitigate a similar event in the future. Of course, that will involve taxing people to generate the money to build the protection, something that Repubs will resist out of natural disbelief.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Aug 30, 2017 - 10:21am PT
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The primary irresponsibility belongs to all the folks that built their homes of straw, on wet ground.
Just like the primary irresponsibility for homes going up in wild fires belongs to those home owners who located there. Its our own irresponsibility.
And all those people from Vancouver to San Diego living right over giant cracks in the earth - us, in other words.
We cast the blame on the government we created to prop up our poor decisions and ease our troubles when the big bad wolf comes calling. How could big oil let this happen, I'm gonna sue.
Those childhood stories come back to haunt us as adults, huh? The big bag wolf is always out there.
DMT,
You would like potential home owners to be savvy, and the obviousness of the danger varies, but rugged individualism isn't going to solve this problem.
If you are told that your house is not in the 100-year flood plain, even though it is, are you supposed to do your own flood study? If you can get a mortgage, should you be allowed to assume that your house meets earthquake codes?
I'm a little less sympathetic to people building expensive homes in drought prone forests, especially if they aren't capable of keeping brush and trees trimmed back from their home.
But regardless of who the finger should be pointed at, when an economic disaster strikes, tax payers foot the bill. Therefore, tax payers should elect politicians who won't allow this type of development.
New Orleans, Miami (and surrounding region) and Houston are going to be huge money pits for tax payers over the next 100 years. I don't see any political will to do anything about it. Except watch people argue over the causes as everything is built back in place so it can flood again.
Although at some point I would think that insurance and mortgage companies will pull out. But I fully expect that the government will step up to provide mortgage and insurance so developers can keep building in flood-prone areas.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 30, 2017 - 10:24am PT
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While the liberal in me supports helping our fellow Americans, I cannot help but wonder if a national discussion of the merits of helping one another is not warranted. After all, Repubs seemed to, as a party, reject such helping philosophy when the target was NY and NJ.
It seem like this should be settled.
Should a local place, that refuses to impose reasonable building codes and preventive planning strategies, in an effort to save taxing themselves, be bailed out by the rest of us paying OUR taxes to do so?
Seems like a reasonable question.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2017 - 10:26am PT
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Sorry, DMT, the only body that can prevent the stoopid Americans and Canadians from building in higher risk areas, and effectively manage construction in such areas, is government. Of course individuals will often take the (apparently) most economical option. And much development in high risk area pre-dates effective government regarding such things. But we know better now, and it'll take time to change. But we have to start somewhere.
That sounds suspiciously like regulation!
You know, that evil thing that kills business and jobs. We are on track to making America Great Again, and no burdensome regulation is going to get in the way of that. In fact, if you want more flood regulations, think of two more to get rid of. I suggest removing earthquake and fire safety regulations if you want to make flood regulations. It's the economy, stupid! ;)
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Aug 30, 2017 - 10:32am PT
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^Nelson
Riddle
So there are maybe 25-30 misguided wannabe anarchists in Berkeeley.
Where are the photos of the actual fascists (probably several thousand) who showed up in Charlottesville.
Do I have to send Mike down there?
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c wilmot
climber
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Aug 30, 2017 - 11:04am PT
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z brown- that's not even close to accurate.
According to the liberal SF gate:
"counterdemonstrators frustrated efforts by police, who numbered about 400. As the crowd swelled to several times that size, officers stepped aside and allowed hundreds of people angered by the presence of the right-wing rally to climb over the barriers into the park, said Officer Jennifer Coats, a spokeswoman for Berkeley police."
That's a lot more than 25 or 30. And we are to believe the Berkeley pd could not control the violent masked neo fascists... though it's more likely they were ordered to stand down and allow the attack to occur.
Also the antifa or neo fascists were INVITED to the rally by the so called peaceful left.
From the latimes.
"Jeff Conant, a member of an East Bay collective of anti-racist demonstrators known as Showing Up For Racial Justice, said march organizers asked allies in the antifa movement to “play a defensive role”
And they full well were expecting to be violent
"Those in the black hoods fell in with the marchers, while the lead truck for the march carried stacks of pastel-painted riot shields that anti-fascist demonstrators later raised against police."
"Participants further were told not to record the day on their cellphones, and urged to write a legal aid phone number on their arms in case of arrest"
It's as shameful as what happened in charletsville
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Aug 30, 2017 - 11:06am PT
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Everybody there from the left was an anarchist?
Sheesh!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 30, 2017 - 11:10am PT
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I wish you guys would make up your minds. Are the liberals a bunch of pansy social justice warrior snowflakes, or rampaging blood thirsty street thugs?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 30, 2017 - 11:17am PT
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Trump would slash disaster funding to the very agencies he’s praising for Harvey response
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c wilmot
climber
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Aug 30, 2017 - 11:18am PT
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The "peaceful" leftist protestors invited known violent thugs. And they even planned to try an minimize self incrimination full well knowing they were going to commit violent acts.
You tell me who they align with
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Aug 30, 2017 - 11:20am PT
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Penny wise pound foolish
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