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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 25, 2010 - 11:02pm PT
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Neither have Sean nor Doug or anyone else on this "Project" climbed the route, start to finish in one shot. That is what really gets me about this whole deal.
Well if this was in Squamish the first ascent would still be up for grabs.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 26, 2010 - 12:06am PT
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Doug for the record your apology to all wilderness lovers (that the chief posted above but edited out, gee why) is enough for me I don't need another one as a taxpayer lol.
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rwedgee
Ice climber
canyon country,CA
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Apr 26, 2010 - 12:12am PT
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We're on the brink of getting rid of T*R* and you guys are arguing about this? Someone should be offering to pack her sh#t. I'll chip in for gas.
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jfs
Trad climber
Upper Leftish
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Apr 26, 2010 - 12:44am PT
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Chief - I happen to agree with at least your general points...but holy crap you can be a blowhard!
I might have a problem with the route...but I'd rather share a campfire with your "enemies" in this one sided "debate" of yours. Maybe even crack a beer with them while we hashed out opinions on style and back-country ethics. Civilly.
I've heard you're a good guy in person...but your internet persona ain't winning anyone over to your cause. Not in my opinion anyway. If you actually want to win this "battle" of yours...that might be worth considering.
DR manned up and apologized for the trash. Man up and realize you've passed the stage of getting your point across and have crossed into chest-beating, self-righteous spray.
But then...you've heard all this before. Never seems to make an impression...
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Apr 26, 2010 - 12:51am PT
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Man, this climbing seems like serious stuff!!!!
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Apr 26, 2010 - 01:00am PT
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Thank you, Karl.
Dogtown.
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Apr 26, 2010 - 01:37am PT
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Look Man ,
If you don’t dig the style that Sean and Doug did it in, then do it better. And it will be your route.
AND THAT GOES FOR ALL YOU MOTHER F*#KERS!
Piss off!!!
Dogtown.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 26, 2010 - 01:41am PT
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Cheif wrote
Neither have Sean nor Doug or anyone else on this "Project" climbed the route, start to finish in one shot.
That is what really gets me about this whole deal.
My understanding is that the sacred "Southern Belle" route wasn't climbed in a shot by the FA either. They climbed fixed ropes to their high point and blasted. When was the real first ascent of "Southern Belle" and you want it in the books like that?
It's unfortunate when we invent standards to validate things and don't even apply them evenly
Peace
Karl
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Apr 26, 2010 - 01:51am PT
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Sorry, If I was just being me Karl.But, someone should go climb it. Has anyone?
DT.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Apr 26, 2010 - 03:14am PT
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Hmmmm, some really testy people on this thread. Amazing, though if I really cared I'd be interested in how some of these people were really like in real life. Maybe some of them are Catholic priests. "Forgive me Father, for I have sinned..."
Off White, I do hear where you are coming from, if I myself was a bit testy, I sincerely apologize. And yes, 'Polighten up' is a good phrase. Cheers dude.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 26, 2010 - 03:21am PT
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Hi Chief
Sounds like you are willing to give the Walt and Dave the FA credit even though they didn't do a continuous ascent but you won't give it to Sean.
you wrote
If I am not mistaken, at least Coz and Shultz returned and blasted the route from bottom to top on one continuous push to achieve the FFA, AFTER Walt and Shultz did the FA the year prior. Big difference when it comes to the progression of a route from FA to FFA.
You are mistaken. Coz and Shultz used fixed lines on the FFA and never did a continuous ascent from the bottom. By the standards of bottom to top continuous climbing you apply to Sean, they didn't get it either. Wanna change your standard to give the old skool a break?
I think we figured out that even Southern Belle has not had even ONE continuous ascent ever. At least Coz said he heard Dean and Leo used fixed ropes too.
The "continuous" thing was discussed during the thread. I know it's a long one
peace
Karl
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 26, 2010 - 10:15am PT
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Chief, if you believe that the LNT ethic is lost on this group of climbers, then it seems to me that you've missed out on a lot of what happened.
There are many cases where climbers, for whatever reason, cannot pack out what they brought in when they first leave a base camp. It is a huge problem on mountain routes. We should honor the teams that make arrangements for their trash to be cleaned up, either by doing it themselves or entrusting it to friends.
In life, when things go as planned, consider it good fortune. Here, things didn't go as planned, and the team did everything within their power to make it right.
So, chill out, Pops. You're starting to sound like your mother didn't ween you long enough.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Apr 26, 2010 - 10:56am PT
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So, if a party comes along and frees GU in one continuous push, do THEY get published credit for the FFA?
...jus' wonderin'
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 26, 2010 - 10:56am PT
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Coz, jugging is aid, right? Certainly it's not free climbing.
I don't think anybody is saying you didn't free the route. Just not in one continuous ascent. That's what is being debated--a continuous ascent, as in one push. Jugging to a high point leaves the door open for someone to do the route in better style.
I know of several routes that await the first continuous free ascent. I'm sure several free routes on El Cap fall into this category. Falling, pulling the rope, and freeing a pitch also puts an asterisk on an ascent. We all know, in free climbing, the trick is to not weight anything but the rock.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Apr 26, 2010 - 11:05am PT
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chief, no. but apparently still good enough these days for a magazine article....
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 26, 2010 - 11:19am PT
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It ain't semantics, bro. You weight anything but the rock, and it's not free. Period.
We all know, there are many shades of "free." Onsight. Flash. Onsight flash.
Myself, I prefer the brown-point.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Apr 26, 2010 - 11:20am PT
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I credited Coz and Schultz big time, in print, for their FFA of Southern Belle. Also Dean and Leo for making the second free all those years later. Still the two most bad ass ascents of the south face of Half Dome, ever.
Compared to doing every move of that climb, a fixed line to a bivy on the ground is relatively trivial.
Growing Up has not had a free ascent because it is not all free. There is the short A0 on the traverse under the arch, and another 60' of A0 leading to the upper slab. Sean clearly marked them on his topo.
Sean did all the rest of the moves on GU free. Compared to that, having freed it in two pushes, lower and upper, also seems relatively trivial.
Sean and I will be the first to congratulate the first party to send it in one push. Just like we'll fully honor the first climbers who do SB without a fixed rope.
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dustonian
climber
RRG
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Apr 26, 2010 - 11:42am PT
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Hey DR, didn't you guys place the A0/bolt ladder sections on rappel? That is just too freakin weird man!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Apr 26, 2010 - 11:45am PT
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Scott wrote: For the record, I´d rather have a beer with the Navy man any day of the week, then with a terrorist lover, and a big wall rap bolter. The man speaks the truth.
Are you really serious? Sean is a great guy as is Doug, Sean has a family and seems to be a great human being with his head screw on right. Doug has made many contributions to the climbing world and both are not criminals by any stretch of the imagination.
So you changed the rules when you "free" climbed SB? I started climbing in 1971 and learned very quickly if you weighted the rope or hung on gear...it was aid...plain and simple.
Funny that those who ride the high horse have a longer way to the ground.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 26, 2010 - 11:53am PT
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Saying that they “aid climbed to their high point” does have a different ring to it than saying they jugged their fixed lines to the high point established free climbing the day before.
Would a bivy instead of sleeping on the dirt have gained them style points?
Southern Belle went free, bottom to top.
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