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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 11, 2016 - 06:07pm PT
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The first refuge occupiers were also Bundy ranch participants (except RitzCracker). There is speculation that they had become aware of their impending arrest and orchestrated the refuge takeover as an encore to Bundy Ranch, with the idea that it would mobilize the troops and give them leverage.
If you go back to Lavoy's evening under the tarp his statements about arrest warrants and not wanting to be taken alive seem to support that theory.
It is also telling that none of the seditionists have mentioned the Hammonds at all since the arrests. Was the whole Hammond thing a scam? probably.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 11, 2016 - 08:06pm PT
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Hows that great relationship between the locals and the feds working out over there in Malheur Mr Beck? Have you checked in on it lately?
Funny how that vote turned out. I would have expected it to go differently given the model of cooperation they have going on.
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peladob
Mountain climber
Mason City, Iowa
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Mar 12, 2016 - 10:56am PT
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Thanks Dinger.
That post helped someone, somewhere, in some small manner.
Sure of it.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Mar 12, 2016 - 11:36am PT
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Thank God for escargot. Just when we thought Ron and rokjox were gone forever.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 12, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
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It's a good bet that the OSP would not be looking so very closely at the ballistics of every shot if someone hadn't suggested it might be worthwhile to do so.
I have a friend and neighbor who's an OSP detective - they aren't clueless or negligent and don't need any prodding to do their job. More complete horsesh#t.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Mar 12, 2016 - 12:24pm PT
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They are throwing the book at them.
The FBI seemed so slow on this that they almost looked lazy. In reality, they waited for a moment when all of them weren't barricaded with guns ready. The ranch episode could have turned very ugly, but the cops stood down. Same thing with the Refuge episode. They didn't attack. They just picked them up when they were out in the open, getting the ringleaders at roadblocks out in the middle of nowhere. They were obviously listening to their phone calls.
Catching Cliven was easy. He left his ranch and got on a plane. They picked him up at an airport.
I have to say that they did a good job on this, other than the death of one man. I'm sorry that that happened, but he was running with a mob that was armed to the teeth and breaking law like it was nothing.
The feds just let them get cold and hungry, and collared them when they were out in the open. Compared to Waco, this was quite a victory for patience. I didn't think that they were going to arrest them at all. They hadn't acted aggressively (the FBI).
So who wants to bet on how much jail time they all will get?
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Mar 12, 2016 - 01:05pm PT
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I have a friend and neighbor who's an OSP detective - they aren't clueless or negligent and don't need any prodding to do their job. More complete horsesh#t.
Agreed! But there remains the question of just what kind of resources would normally be deployed to investigate what might have seemed a relatively straghtforward, justifiable takedown.
I am suggesting that the FBI HRT guys massively screwed up, expected a wall of blue fron OSP as cover, and that one or more OSP officers said hell no.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 12, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
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And yet the Jack Yantis case still remains inconclusive. .
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 12, 2016 - 07:05pm PT
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Escopeta? Re your comment, which you have made previously:
And yet the Jack Yantis case still remains inconclusive. .
Adams county, Idaho rancher Jack Yantis getting shot after a confrontation with two Adams County Deputy Sheriffs this winter, after his bull was hit by a passing car at night, has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, and I suspect you are bright enough to know that too.
I appreciate you have repeatedly tried to derail this thread.
Since you are the current most disingenuous poseur on ST, I find your posts always of interest/or not.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 12, 2016 - 07:27pm PT
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Glad to see I have a fan club. The counterpoint of the speed and efficacy of the Lavoy Finnicum investigation vis a vis the "normal" shooting of a citizen is certainly of interest to the thread.
Just because is doesn't continue your rain-man like incessant repartee about the militia must be why you don't like it.
Would be interesting if the OSP crawfished the Feds. If so, maybe they get to keep a little integrity in their pocket. A scant little.
EDIT: Maybe the FBI called all hands on deck when the Bird Sanctuary got ganked and had no time for the Yantis investigation. I heard the FBI is on a tight, tight budget.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Mar 12, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
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The "normal" shooting of a citizen is that the cops all file paperwork and then everyone believes exactly what it says.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 12, 2016 - 09:08pm PT
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I just watched (& enjoyed) the classic 1st movie of Clint Eastwood's "Dollars Trilogy" - A Fistfull of Dollars.
It's easy to see where my, Escopeta's, & The Bundy's western "tough-guy" attitude comes from.
It's likely due to our thinking western movies, like those by Clint & Sergio were lessons on life. (not that Escopeta will admit to that, or anything.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollars_Trilogy
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 13, 2016 - 07:50am PT
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Good lord
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Mar 16, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
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Maybe their guns went off and they didn't notice? Lol
It is possible. It is called auditory exclusion and the momentary lapse of trigger finger discipline as the clutch response occurs under deadly stress could cause the negligent discharge.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 16, 2016 - 07:12pm PT
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ROTFLMAO
Yeah, that's it. They were under stress and didn't realize their gun went off. Lol
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 16, 2016 - 07:21pm PT
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Jon Beck! Your link is a great read! & Escopeta, you as usual try to sidetrack this thread. Gud Luk Bovine Being!
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 16, 2016 - 07:32pm PT
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Maybe Fritz's gun went off without him knowing also.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 16, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
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Escopeta!
MOOOOOOOOO!
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