Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
Yes, I agree.
Some need no evidence, and some need a great deal, even after spending personal time with Christ. Personally, I can't imagine. But Jesus worked with even those.
We are blessed. We believe but have never seen Jesus. (But I have other physical evidences that what he says is true, that they didn't have in the time of Christ).
Some will come to GOD and believe with little evidence, or no evidence. They hear the Good News, they have faith, believe, they ask Jesus to come into their hearts and forgive them, and Jesus comes into their heart and changes their life.
Others hear the Good News, but then they want proof that it is real and true. Then they believe, they have faith, ask Jesus to come into their hearts and forgive them, and he does and he changes their life.
We all have different amounts of faith who have come to Jesus. The Good News is he will work with what you have and what you need to believe. Faith will grow as we go.
But we all have to take that leap of faith at some point. It will always require faith. Always.
|
|
illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
Klimmer,
That "Bible Prophecy and Probability" was part of a presentation that a brother in Christ, David Hall (http://quiettimepoems.blogspot.com/); put together for a statistics class back when he was in college. He told me that his instructor never said a word nor asked a question after he finished! Read his testimony and peruse his poems. It is humbling how he has committed his life to the Lord. Edit: see below
|
|
illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
"About Me
Name: David Hall Location: San Diego, California, United States
I retired from the U.S. Navy in 1997. More importantly, I trusted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior in 1973 and will tell anyone about Him who will listen to the evidence that He is the Savior of the world! I have been employed as an English teacher, but am now retired and serving the Lord full time. I am especially eager to present the evidence that PROVES the Bible to be true, by examining the accuracy of fulfilled prophecy (God has NEVER been wrong), the historical reality of the resurrection of Christ, the intelligent design evident in nature by which God has clearly illustrated His attributes, and an objective examination of the scientific validity of the Bible, whenever it speaks to issues of science (e.g., the Bible's claim that the stars were innumerable (Jeremiah 33:22) while astronomers in 150 A.D. said there were at most 3,000). A lot is riding on this, friends. God's promises of salvation are as valid as His promises of judgment. And you must decide which one you want to experience for all of your eternity... a long time to regret the wrong choice. Come to Christ today, while you may. -Matthew 11:28."
|
|
illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
From David Hall's blog:
"What reason do you have to believe the earth is flat?"
"No reason at all! The Bible affirmed that the earth was round long before science discovered it (Isaiah 40:22)."
|
|
illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
Outstanding!
"How the Heavens Declare the Glory of God
"Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said.... Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth MAZZAROTH (i.e., the twelve constellations of the zodiac) in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?” (Job 38:1,32).
1. WHO named the stars?
Answer: Scripture is clear: God Himself named the stars.
“He telleth the number of the stars; He calleth them all by their names” (Psalm 147:4).
“Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: He calleth them all by names by the greatness of His might, for that He is strong in power; not one faileth” (Isaiah 40:26). See Job 38:32, where God recites star names."
|
|
illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
"2. WHY did God name the stars?
Answer: To provide prophetic signs ordered according to their appointed times (i.e., “seasons”) of fulfillment.
“And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs (othoth, signifying something to come), and for seasons (moed, a fixed or an appointed time), and for days, and years” (Genesis 1:14). See Romans 10:18."
|
|
illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
"3. WHAT is the message declared by the stars?
Answer: The glory of God that is “above the heavens” (Psalm 8:1), as seen in the Person and work of God the Son, Jesus Christ, the promised Seed of a woman, as foretold in the first Messianic prophecy (Genesis 3:15), declaring that our Savior would eventually defeat Satan (i.e., bruise the serpent’s head), though He would suffer (bruising His own heal) to redeem His people from their sins and take them safely home to heaven.
“O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! Who hast set thy glory above the heavens... The heavens declare the glory of God” (Psalm 8:1, 19:1).
“For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ” (2 Corinthians 4:6). See also Hebrews 1:3.
“And I will put enmity between thee [Satan, embodied in the serpent] and the woman, and between thy seed and her Seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel” (Genesis 3:15). This is the central theme.
Example: God called Abram out of Ur of the Chaldees where astrology, abhorrent to God (Deut. 18:10-12, Isaiah 47:13,14), had flourished. God commanded Abram: “Look toward heaven, and tell (narrate) the stars, if thou be able to number (name them one by one) them. And He said, So shall thy Seed be (singular, referring to Christ; see Galatians 3:16). And he believed in the Lord; and He counted it to him for righteousness” (Genesis 15:5).
Abram knew the star names and where to begin naming them. Beginning at Virgo he would have recited words such as: “VIRGO, SUBILAH, ZAVIJAVA, SPICA/TSEMECH¹, VINDEMIATRIX, COMA, IHESU², BOOTES, ARCTURUS, NEKKAR, AGENA, TOLIMAN,” which translates: “The virgin who carries the gloriously beautiful Seed, the Branch (Messiah), the Son who comes down to rule, the desired Son, the Christ, the coming Shepherd, the Pierced, the despised Sin Offering, the Beginning and the End.”
|
|
illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
"4. WHERE do we find specific star names in Scripture?
Answer: Primarily in the Book of Job, acknowledged by God Himself in the series of questions that He posed to Job, showing also the common knowledge of the star names among the ancient patriarchs of that dispensation.
“Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth (the constellations) in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?” (Job 38:32).
“[God] alone spreadeth out the heavens...which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers (constellations) of the south” (Job 9:9).
“By His spirit He hath garnished the heavens; His hand hath formed the crooked serpent” (Job 26:13).
-Note: SERPENS and HYDRA are two examples of this.
The prophet Amos also advised, “Seek him that maketh the seven stars (literally, Pleiades) and Orion” (Amos 5:8)."
|
|
illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
"5. WHEN were the star names first given in human history?
Answer: Most likely incident to the fall of man, providing and preserving an exposition on the first Messianic promise given to humanity in Genesis 3:15.
The obvious familiarity of the star names in the book of Job (accepted as the oldest book in the Bible) testifies to the antiquity handed down by Adam to his descendants. Ancient planispheres and star charts in virtually every civilization bear witness to a single, Divine origin by their phenomenal unity, as observed in China, India, Babylonia, Persia, Egypt, Israel, Greece, Rome, Scandinavia, and in Central America.
Bibliography:
Bullinger, E.W. The Witness of the Stars, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Kregel, 1893, 1967.
Fleming, K. C. God's Voice in the Stars, Loizeaux Brothers, Neptune, New Jersey, 1981.
Seiss, Joseph A. The Gospel in the Stars, Castle Press, 1884; Grand rapids, Michigan: Kregel, 1979.
posted by Brother David Hall"
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
Wow Illusiondweller,
You a have given me a bunch more to read! Very good stuff. :-))
My Amazon.com Wish list is breaking at the seams . . .
Klimmer
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
Craig said: "You have not answered any of my questions, and just go tangential from anything I say."
The problem is that you're not really asking any questions, Craig. I sense of this is that your mind is made up and you're daring anyone to provide "evidence" that will refute your conclusion. Funny thing is that I'm not refuting your conclusion at the level of your arguments. If a person demands that "God" be material with qualities that can be quantified with scientific instrument, then I totally agree that "God" does not "exist." I also agree that at the level of symbolic materialism (language refers to "real" things), discussions of "God," at least in literal terms, are meaningless, since there's no material to haggle over so what the hell are we talking about if not a whole lot of "nothing?" Right?
But moving on - A true question is the inquiry about information to which you have to clue whatsoever, and no opinion either. It's an open minded exploration. As is, you've determined that "God" meet your own personal, and in my opinion, very limited, materialistic/reductionistic criteria.
I'm merely suggesting that perhaps your problem lies more with your criteria, than with "God."
JL
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
Dr. F. wrote: "No one here on ST, or in any other book, or after 10000 of years, has experienced God in some way that could called more than a warm fuzzing feeling inside."
Well, nobody can accuse of not making bold and fantastic assertions there Doctor. In the previous statement, you're purporting to know, with certainty, the inner experiences of every human being who has ever lived in the history of the world. In fact this is more fantastic a claim than insisting Jonah spent time in the whale's tripe. That means you're nothing short of omniscient = God. Who would'a thunk it?
Moving on: "And Largo, why are you taking this so personnal."
I don't personalize any of this. Not remotely. I laugh a lot, at myself for fiddling with such folly, but I still do it for the hell of it.
JL
|
|
pa
climber
|
|
Dr.F, there is truth in what Mr. Largo says...you sound like a man who is trying to put out a fire with a wooden stick.
|
|
Binks
climber
Uranus
|
|
A better question is what do people mean when they say God?
To me God is the intelligence that permeates and creates the Universe. He created me with a unique configuration and wants me to live it to the fullest.
Honestly, I can't even imagine not believing in God. It would be trying to deny my own existence. One thing I can't believe in is religion. All these idiots with their "holy books" proclaiming this and that about God. They don't know sh#t. Religion seems to me for people who are unaware that God speaks directly to anyone who asks. Religious people are idolaters. They listen to men, not God and claim it's God they listen to. Religion is a scourge.
I am a part of the intelligence of this universe. I perceive that it is vast, and that I have frequent access to it, and that it is infinitely greater than I can comprehend using normal human consciousness.
I ask it to speak to me in a language I can understand and it does. God breaks it down for me. Every time I ask. If you don't experience a connection of God it's your free will not to do so. You've chosen it, or chosen to believe something else.
Here's the rub. Ask God to send you a sign that you will be unable to deny. He'll do it.
|
|
luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
|
|
More than 1 billion copies
Book Author(s) Original language First published Approximate sales
Bible[1] (Koine Greek τὰ Βιβλία -hebrew " התנ"ך " ) Authors of the Bible Hebrew, Koine Greek, Aramaic, Latin 300 BC- 95 AD,
Further information: dating of the Bible
2.5 billion[2] to more than 6 billion[3]
for something that some say cannot possible hold truth...why would it be passed down via language for generations and printed so many times?.....what other book has sold more copies...or for that matter how far back....
|
|
Binks
climber
Uranus
|
|
The Bible is like a virus. God does not give a crap or not about it. Ask him.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
|
|
Binks- In a way, you just contradicted your own aforementioned principle. Which God? When you say God, what do you mean? Do you mean God Jehovah, that is, God of Moses? If not, which God? God Diacrates? God Hypercrates? Which, man, tell us which one you mean.
God Diacrates: The intelligent higher power behind all things.
God Jehovah: The god (deity) of Jews, Christians, Muslims.
God Hypercrates: personification, symbol, of fate (cf: Grim Reaper, symbol of death)
God Zeus: the God of the ancient Greeks
Stop dangling deities. (Your own aforementioned principle.) Break this bad habit. -Which is what it is. A bad habit.
You don't "dangle participles" in English class. Similarly, you don't "dangle deities" in any 21st century intelligent discourse on gods or theologies. (Yes, it's a new standard of awareness.) Try it.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!