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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Mar 24, 2016 - 09:07pm PT
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The Republican Party has become a Frankenstein....Where lies and hysteria hide reason...Nail on the head...!!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2016 - 05:01am PT
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Dingus posted How would I do it? I'd ignore socio-economic data, urban vs rural, north vs south, race or ethnicity, immigration status or sex identification; none of that should play a role.
So what happens when you wind up with a 90% white government in a 47% white state? Or when rural interests are completely unrepresented because most districts have significant urban areas? You're ultimately just trading partisan biases (or at least the appearance of them) for others.
August posted The winner-take-all system is the problem. To the extent possible, I would rather have a regional, proportional system. So you would have a district where ten seats were up that were awarded on a proportional basis. So it would take about 10% of the vote to elect a single politician. In our current system if an alternate party (green, libertarian, Christian conservative, etc.) gets 10% across the board, they gets zero seats. With a proportional they would. If the Dems (or Reps) got 40% of the vote in that district, they would get 4 seats in that district. 10% for the greens would get one. It would better represent voters. I would limit it to 10 so that there is still a regional component.
You're describing something more like a parliamentary system which I think is long overdue. In other countries if the people lose confidence in the government or if the government no longer can agree on anything it fails and triggers elections. Our constitution virtually cements a 2 party system.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 25, 2016 - 09:37am PT
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DMT, you have yet to demonstrate that the existing gerrymander in 2002 favored Republicans in congressional districts. All your sources say is that it preserved the status quo. They don't describe the status quo. Please provide some evidence that the existing congressional districts favored Republicans.
I completely agree, however, that the current districts result in election of extremists, because the winner of the primary of the dominant party faces no serious opposition. Extremists dominate both California parties, so only candidates capable of placating those extremists have a chance of winning the primaries - at least without open primaries and voters of the minority party smart enough to vote for moderates of the opposition party.
Finally, on a completely different front, the Sixth Circuit loses patience with the three years (and counting) of the Obama administration's stonewalling on the IRS discrimination against conservative groups:
http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/16a0069p-06.pdf
The opinion for a unanimous court beings as follows:
"KETHLEDGE, Circuit Judge. Among the most serious allegations a federal court can address are that an Executive agency has targeted citizens for mistreatment based on their political views. No citizen—Republican or Democrat, socialist or libertarian—should be targeted or even have to fear being targeted on those grounds. Yet those are the grounds on which the plaintiffs allege they were mistreated by the IRS here. The allegations are substantial: most are drawn from findings made by the Treasury Department’s own Inspector General for Tax Administration. Those findings include that the IRS used political criteria to round up applications for tax-exempt status filed by so-called tea-party groups; that the IRS often took four times as long to process tea-party applications as other applications; and that the IRS served tea-party applicants with crushing demands for what the Inspector General called “unnecessary
information.”
Yet in this lawsuit the IRS has only compounded the conduct that gave rise to it. The plaintiffs seek damages on behalf of themselves and other groups whose applications the IRS treated in the manner described by the Inspector General. The lawsuit has progressed as slowly as the underlying applications themselves: at every turn the IRS has resisted the plaintiffs’ requests for information regarding the IRS’s treatment of the plaintiff class, eventually to the open frustration of the district court."
I guess the continuing stonewalling isn't news, since ABC, NBC and CBS failed to report it.
John
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 25, 2016 - 09:52am PT
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However mistaken you may find Clinton and Sanders on the issues, their debate is addressed to the world as it exists and therefore open to a sensible critique. The squalor to which the GOP has sunk, an alternate reality rooted in anger and mendacity, transcends mere differences in policy, threatening the country with profound, perhaps irreparable, damage.
I'm sorry, Craig, but that statement summarizes why few Republicans will take the open letter seriously. The world as Bernie and Hillary see it has at least as much unreality as that of Ted Cruz or John Kasich. It's Donald Trump about whom the letter hits closer to the mark, but a majority of Republicans reject him. Unfortunately, winner-take-all rules allow someone with a plurality the possibility of piling up enough delegates to winthe nomination over the majority of the party.
I find it worthwhile to analyze why Trump phenomenon takes places with Republicans, not Democrats. I hear the Trumpians proclaim that they're bringing in new voters - many of whom were nominally Democrats -to the Republican tent. My problem stems from the beliefs of those "new voters," because I find those beliefs at odds with the conservative values that have defined my party heretofore.
Again, the letter is worthwhile, but don't expect Republicans to take it as Gospel. The intro I quoted above demonstrates the author's own blindness to the sins of the Democrats.
John
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Mar 25, 2016 - 09:58am PT
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Excellent letter, Craig. Spot on.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 25, 2016 - 10:03am PT
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I couldn't get past the first three condescending unctuous paragraphs.
That guy makes a living as a writer?
I'm going for a hike.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Mar 25, 2016 - 10:24am PT
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Again, the letter is worthwhile, but don't expect Republicans to take it as Gospel.
Indeed. If recent history is any indicator, Republicans will simply ignore it--much as they do global warming, evolution and other rationally based input.
Curt
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2016 - 10:37am PT
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John posted Finally, on a completely different front, the Sixth Circuit loses patience with the three years (and counting) of the Obama administration's stonewalling on the IRS discrimination against conservative groups:
It baffles me how you manage to get sucked into some of these stories despite their shaky foundations and largely resolved conclusions.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 25, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
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What is the candidates stand on Toddlers??
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Jorroh
climber
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Mar 25, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
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"IRS discrimination against conservative groups"
Totally agree John....they should also be looking into IRS discrimination against other Tax cheats as well.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Mar 25, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
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With the IRS, I recall Lois Lerner first publicly apologized specifically to conservative groups, then as a witness took the 5th on the grounds that she would possibly self incriminate.
This raises absolutely no skepticism with partisans of the left.
The left then turns around and without proof calls the targeted groups tax cheats.
Yikes, now that is what I call faith based.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Mar 25, 2016 - 01:35pm PT
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That is great ,Fritz.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Mar 25, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
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While you're debating tax cheats don't forget the corporations that don't pay taxes and hide their money offshore while the American peon middle class pick up the slack to pay the missing tax revenue...another form of discrimination
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Norton
Social climber
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Mar 25, 2016 - 02:41pm PT
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Regarding the "Wall Street Bailout"
think back to 2007, the economy had not only officialyl fallen into Recession, as defined by negative growth, but was also in a free fall, losing 500,000 jobs a MONTH, in fact the US economy was in the worst Recession since the Great Depression of the 30s.
Not only were mortgages not being properly underwritten but also the new class of
financial packages known as CDOs.
And predictable enough, to some, read the Big Short, these exploded.
I fully understand the anger over the "why should Wall Street be bailed out and not me"
Putting that emotion aside, IF you really knew how bad the large financial institutions'
losses were and if you really understood the very very likely massive and perhaps complete destruction of the US economy and maybe your own job, then you might understand that yes Wall Street and the biggest US banks DID have to bailed out.
And yes, it was the right thing to do.
Bernie Sanders was wrong to vote against it and Hillary Clinton was right to vote for it.
The risk of not getting it passed was too far to high, it was the "right" thing to do.
Could the financial crisis have been avoided or at least greatly mitigated?
Yes, imho, but not with Republican control of the Presidency, House, and Senate,
Because to them, markets are like puppies and children and should be "free" and allowed to seek their own level without "burdensome government regulation".
Conservative philosophy of leave it alone - was emphatically proven dead wrong.
I have enough disgust with the simply awful effect that conservative social policy has on many US citizens, but when one considers their economic philosophy, there
simply is no defense for voting Republican anymore. End of my personal rant.
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 25, 2016 - 02:45pm PT
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Norton: spot on, but I will add that to his credit, President Bush realized that massive government intervention was needed to avert a catastrophe. At least he was flexible at that critical moment.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Mar 25, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
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I think we should ask good ole' double-barrel Joe Biden about gun control.
He has such great advice on these things. He's kind of like a toddler, right?
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 25, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
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I don't think so. President Bush will rank as one of the all time worst presidents, but if we had President Cruz, forget about it, he wouldn't have done a damned thing. I will give President Bush credit for this and attempting to change immigration laws, in spite of his party's rabid right wing base.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Mar 25, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
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[quote]
You're describing something more like a parliamentary system which I think is long overdue. In other countries if the people lose confidence in the government or if the government no longer can agree on anything it fails and triggers elections. Our constitution virtually cements a 2 party system./quote]
I have mixed feelings on parliamentary systems. You could elect a House that had some type of proportional system, like I described, and still directly elect the president. They can be separated.
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