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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Aug 23, 2017 - 12:46pm PT
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It was more about who paid the fees to Clinton
Was it? Really?
So, would you think poorly of Tom Brokaw because GS paid him to speak? Deepak Chopra? Misty Copeland(primary dancer for the American Ballet Theatre)? Former First Lady Laura Bush?
Because each of those people was paid by Goldman Sachs to speak. http://www.goldmansachs.com/our-thinking/talks-at-gs/speaker-list.html
It's okay to admit that when those claims about Clinton hit our newsfeeds, day after day after day, propelled to the top of "trending" lists by an army of bots(yes, this WAS how it was done, and guess whose presidential campaign the the fees, which are very MUCH in the range of what GS paid Clinton to speak) that paid for those bots point to?), that we were incensed. I was! Yes, I was....until I took the small amount of time required to learn that the speaking engagements were for the par for just about anyone on the speaking circuit.
Like I said - the misinformation campaign was effective. And if we DON'T get to the bottom of it and get not only Trump, but every other traitor who worked against the will of We, the People, to spin the 2016 election, it is going to happen again.
While people whine and cry about "fake news and Russia," our well-being as a country is being pulled out from under us like a tablecloth by the magician. Civil violence is only a piece of the game. Crying for "jobs?" What the F we gonna do when there ain't NO job, NO HOW, because our entire economic floorplan has been gutted? You think it CAN'T happen here? Let it happen and we will see, just how willing the rest of the world is to take in the tired and huddled masses of US refugees scurrying to other shores in the hope for a chance - just a chance - to survive.
Shame. Shame on us all, on so many levels.
Edit: We ARE at war, but the war in Afghanistan is just one small front on a pull for the redirection of power. While I see no REAL reason why I should be so lucky to be in the US reaping a fairly nice way of life, when people no less deserving of the same suffer, I sure as HELL don't want to live in this place when our population is in a widespread panic over being able to feed their children when the stores are empty. You think that cannot happen? It can, and it WILL, if we don't pull our heads out of our behinds and fight for our freedom now. You think the average German "saw it coming," the concentration camps, the horror? You think that, once the writing was on the walls, the average German didn't go with the flow because they had to survive? True, this is "not the same thing", but in the long view....it is pretty much exactly the same thing.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 23, 2017 - 12:52pm PT
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Getting into the minutiae of healthcare policy might be a fun distraction, but does seem like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic at the moment.
I have to acknowledge the soundness of that argument.
Identity politics can't be ignored. It spreads like rot and erodes the foundations required for making decisions and taking action on policy alternatives. More than President Trump and all the consequences of his actions or inactions that will have a lasting adverse impact on our country, I am worried about what led to us electing him and what leads so many people to still support him and his agenda.
I have long worried about the fragmenting and weakening of our educational system that would exacerbate problems of uninformed voters. But we have a bigger problem. What's the point of trying to educate people in the rational domain if we don't address the emotional triggers that override our capacity to act and make decisions using our rational faculties? How do we release people from fear and anger? These can be lifetime tasks for people who want to make those changes. How do we deal with people who don't perceive or won't accept that there are problems, and will fight tooth and nail against facing them?
Dysfunctional fear-based politics requires a fear and/or anger-based constituency. As long as parents are the primary sources that inform our children's emotional development, especially in the crucial early years, the fears embedded in our society will remain and be passed from generation to generation. Change in this realm is hard, almost inconceivable at a societal level.
Public service announcements and laws created by open minds trying to force the behavior of closed minds will never work. It just pushes the closed minds into hiding behind masks of politeness and social acceptability, waiting like a virus for a weakness in our country before coming out.
The only real hope is to break the cycle of inheritance by creating a larger role for society in the emotional education of our children. Where the rubber hits the road is our school system. And really, it should be happening during the childhood years that are more impactful, within a public preschool and daycare system. You want to solve prison crowding and reduce crime? Invest in a generation of public daycare and preschool and support programs through the end of high school, with emotional development programs all along the way.
And our present administration, and indeed the whole movement that brought this administration into power, is focused on destroying the societal tools to improve the emotional health of our children. Fragmenting our education system, removing national standards and programs, puts the power back in the hands of emotionally stunted parents to enforce their dysfunction on the next generation by choosing a school and social environment that promotes a fear or anger-based world view while shielding children from the education that would help them overcome these things.
I can imagine the gasps of horror among many people, who would find this prescription quite frightening or naive or pie-in-the-sky or whatever. Anything but possible. There are certain to be societal overreaches and over-corrections on the path to solving these problems, but in the long run for our society, I think these overreaches will be correctable. And what is the alternative?
Some people think that anything else would be tolerable or preferable to a dystopia of society norms overruling parental values in raising children- beyond the nanny state! For me, I disagree because we can see around us the consequences of NOT letting our society contribute to the emotional early education of children. Perpetual war and violence. Hate. Identity politics. Tolerance of thuggery, name-calling, ugliness, 1000 people trying to destroy and find fault for every 1 person trying to create or find a solution. Or at least a mass of fearful sheep hiding behind indifference and detachment, claiming to be apart from the problems while actively choosing to not be part of the solutions.
We need a strong nation projecting a strong set of national values, and participating as a peer among strong nations, showing the leadership and modeling the behaviors at an international level that represent how we want the world to be. That includes the balance of humility to be a peer rather than a ruler of the world, but also to have the strength and integrity and boundaries to enforce our values in all of our relationships.
Most people react to the world the way it is and use it to justify their reactions. Leaders create the world they want to be a part of.
And on that note, I am going back to my work, automating away some more jobs.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Aug 23, 2017 - 01:13pm PT
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Yet the payment is a COMMON fee for people at the level Hillary Clinton was/is.
Here's list, from 2012, of the 10 top paid speakers. http://publicspeaking.co.ke/post/10-highest-paid-public-speakers-in-the-world
How is a "private" speach to Goldman a public speech? We don't even know if she gave a speech.
And the Clinton's by no means have a monopoly on sleazy finances. But I don't recall Obama having done anything on that level while he was still a potential candidate. Obama is no longer a potential candidate because he is not going to run for office again. Hillary got those fat fees when it was clear she was going to run for the presidency.
Guess who was the highest paid? None other than(barf) Donald Trump.
As far as Trump goes: If I was going to make a list of reasons why he should never have been elected POTUS, but I could only have 100 entries, I'm not sure there would even be room for financial misconduct, let alone fees from speeches...
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Aug 23, 2017 - 01:16pm PT
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There was a multi-billion dollar decades long smear campaign against Hillary that was effective on all parties
If you are still duped by it you make a great mark for the next big money disinformation scam
and you will probably be duped the next election cycle into questioning your vote for a Dem
It's tough on the Dems when they are up against pure evil that will cheat and lie about everything for your vote
everything that Hillary did that was questionable, Trump did it 10 million times worse, so why is Trump president?
because of duped idiots that voted for him and were swayed by the massive amount Republican lies
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Aug 23, 2017 - 01:18pm PT
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Happy, you keep glossing over the 'private' part. Your last list was public speeches for which there is video.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 23, 2017 - 01:24pm PT
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The criminal ripoff artists Goldman Sax and all their criminal speakers can all go to fuking hell ....
Why? That's where they come from.
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Norton
Social climber
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Aug 23, 2017 - 01:48pm PT
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Hilary Clinton made a YUGE mistake by setting up a private email server at home
and no matter how secured conducting government business through it
Another mistake was accepting large private speaking fees
Could eliminating just these two have been enough to get her to 270 Electoral Votes?
We will never know but at least Trump would have had far less ammunition
Private polling shows that millions of Clinton voters simply stayed home and did not bother to vote as the polls showed her with a small but solid 2-3% lead over The Donald in the days right before Nov 8.
For the Democrats to come in from wondering in the desert and retake congressional majorities they will need a "wave vote", an outpouring of public anger similar to the wave against George Bush for the Iraq invasion that propelled the Dems to majorities in both the House and Senate and put Obama into the WH two years after 2008
There are more people who identify as Dems than Repubs and generally more independent voters tend to vote Democrat, but the difference is turnout, the Republicans get their people to actually vote far better than the Dems do with their people. Emotion, talk radio hate speech, motivate Republicans far better than Democrats talking public policy issue details. The Dems have to learn to get mean.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Aug 23, 2017 - 02:38pm PT
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NutAgain!
The only real hope is to break the cycle of inheritance by creating a larger role for society in the emotional education of our children. Where the rubber hits the road is our school system. And really, it should be happening during the childhood years that are more impactful, within a public preschool and daycare system.
...
I can imagine the gasps of horror among many people, who would find this prescription quite frightening or naive or pie-in-the-sky or whatever. Anything but possible. There are certain to be societal overreaches and over-corrections on the path to solving these problems, but in the long run for our society, I think these overreaches will be correctable. And what is the alternative?
Some people think that anything else would be tolerable or preferable to a dystopia of society norms overruling parental values in raising children- beyond the nanny state! For me, I disagree because we can see around us the consequences of NOT letting our society contribute to the emotional early education of children. NutAgain!, Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin would have been proud of you.
Please fo not forget to substitute "society" with "government" in the above passage.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 23, 2017 - 02:48pm PT
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The criminal ripoff artists Goldman Sax and all their criminal speakers can all go to fuking hell ....
Why? That's where they come from.
We have a winner! Time to start a new thread, fear has put this one in a nutshell.
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Norton
Social climber
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Aug 23, 2017 - 03:47pm PT
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Bernie Sanders voters helped Trump become President
Bernie Sanders supporters switched their allegiance to Donald Trump in large enough numbers last November to sway the election for the real estate billionaire, according to an analysis of voter data released Tuesday by the blog Political Wire. Since Trump’s shock victory over Hillary Clinton, much discussion has focused on the degree to which passionate Sanders supporters’ refusal to embrace Clinton led to the Republican winding up in the White House.
*According to the analysis of the 2016 Cooperative Congressional Election Survey, fewer than 80 percent of those who voted for Sanders, an independent, in the Democratic primary did the same for Clinton when she faced off against Trump a few months later. What’s more, 12 percent of those who backed Sanders actually cast a vote for Trump.
*The impact of those votes was significant. In each of the three states that ultimately swung the election for Trump—Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania—Trump’s margin of victory over Clinton was smaller than the number of Sanders voters who gave him their vote.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 23, 2017 - 05:41pm PT
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Yet the payment is a COMMON fee for people at the level Hillary Clinton was/is.
Here's list, from 2012, of the 10 top paid speakers. http://publicspeaking.co.ke/post/10-highest-paid-public-speakers-in-the-world
How is a "private" speach to Goldman a public speech? We don't even know if she gave a speech.
August, you are misusing the term "public speaker", to mean that a person gives a speech to the public.
It does not.
It means that the person is giving a speech to a live audience, the setting is not the issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_speaking
Were you aware that a word can have a different meaning in different contexts?
One that I always find particularly stupid, is when I am describe as "a practicing physician", that that means that I'm not a real physician, but just practicing to become one. Ahem.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 23, 2017 - 06:16pm PT
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I would rather they fire the whole bunch of old f*#ks who think the old ways are the only ways, and chart a new course, from the middle.
I think the whole "Drain the swamp narrative" resonated with a lot of people who thought just that. Even though a lot of The Orange One's idea's were stupid (i.e. the Wall), he seemed to be the lesser weevil.
One of the most effective means of control is to split the animals in your pasture into different groups along arbitrary fence lines. Donkeys in one pen and Elephants in another. You can then paint some red and some blue even. Not only is this an effective way to keep things tidy, the animals will actually fight each other rather than you. Even if some wander out of the pen, most actually want to be led back to be part of the herd again.
Human nature I'm afraid... hard to change that.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Aug 23, 2017 - 06:21pm PT
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I would rather they fire the whole bunch of old f*#ks who think the old ways are the only ways, and chart a new course, from the middle.
Don't get mean. Don't further polarize. A concerted move to the middle, led and propelled by the generations that will be most affected by the decisions of those elected, that's what I'd like to see. Cooperation not anger. Compromise, not battle. Effective leadership for the country, and to hell with the party platform and leadership.
That's what a lot of us want.
DMT
Dingus.... agree 100%...so you get it.
Still waiting for what I call the "shift" to occur .... once the outraged democrats get over all the butt hurt... I think that they can work with our President because you can clearly see that he is getting pretty tired of WORKING with republican losers like McConnel and Ryan...
All that is required is for like 26 Dem senators and 30 republican senators to say F-off to the "LEADERS" who threaten them with PARTY punishment and Vola... we will have a middle of the road NEW PARTY.
And NUT... you have some sick thoughts about children and parents and the role of Government. You do make Mao and Jo Stalin look like moderates.
EDIT: Maybe it's my reading comprehension I will need to re-read and diagram the sentences so I can get the full gist of what your trying to say.... being at work, in a hectic environment... I sort of speed read.
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Norton
Social climber
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Aug 23, 2017 - 06:46pm PT
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All that is required is for like 26 Dem senators and 30 republican senators to say F-off to the "LEADERS" who threaten them with PARTY punishment and Vola... we will have a middle of the road NEW PARTY.
astoundingly naive and sophomoric statement
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Aug 23, 2017 - 07:07pm PT
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You are being a semantic twit, Ken. The discussion was about giving a speech to a private audience for which no video or transcripts are released, versus a 'public' speech where video or transcripts are available to the public.
Were you aware that a word can have a different meaning in different contexts?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Aug 23, 2017 - 07:39pm PT
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"Well maybe the democratic machine will listen to them next time?
Nah.
DMT"
And just maybe the director of the FBI won't come out with a statement 11 days before the election that swings it to a person like Trump.
Hillary lead was pretty substantial in OH, MI and PA before Comey statement. She also won the general election by close to 3 million votes.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 23, 2017 - 08:29pm PT
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If the old democratic party continues the politics of the 70s,
The politics of the '70s weren't too bad. It's the politics of the '90s and the Democratic Leadership Council which swung the party into the hands of corporate America.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Aug 23, 2017 - 08:44pm PT
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no seriously crankster, hillary was electable prior to the Benghazi 'ysteria.
Haw mothaf*#kin haw.
I'mabout done with Democraticracital votin' after that Schultz-ness in Florida. Tell me why to vote Blue insteada plurple [sic]
I think Zappa Z. Dog might do better even without Dem Machine interference to exclude poplear candidatz like Bernard. And yet, one smallows the partylines.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Aug 23, 2017 - 08:54pm PT
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In foresight's retrospect, if only Hillary had turned around and called little Donnie a creep, she would have won! In retrospect's foresight, no way Trump could win that election!
We humans have it all figured out. It's just that we're each working on our own problem, and we never get to check our answer against the complete results.
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drF
Trad climber
usa
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Aug 23, 2017 - 11:28pm PT
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Backup you Creep!....BobDuh
thu Democrat "party" is dead. You ANTIFA haters are circling the bowl.
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