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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 24, 2009 - 07:12am PT
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high, i'm amazed that nancy would lie so blatantly when the facts have already been published...but i do love dr f's spin:
she only "knew" the techniques "might" be used...so, the techniques are acceptable in theory but not in practice? classic liberal "morality"
james taranto from wsj made an excellent point yesterday...after 9/11, which occurred just 8 months into W's first term, there were no recriminations/accusations/prosecutions targeting the clinton administration...there was plenty of blather in the media about clinton's "missed opportunities" to catch or kill obl, but nobody in W's administration even hinted at "investigations"...rather, W decided to "look forward instead of backward"...where have i heard that before?
concerned about being "american"? well, american administrations do not prosecute previous administrations because of "policy"...we hold elections
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 24, 2009 - 09:15am PT
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LEB has personally stated that she will NOT post on any thread unless she has been invited in the thread to do so.
This proves there could be a god.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 24, 2009 - 10:19am PT
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if liberals are right, i'm happy to be wrong
from liberal standard bearer sean penn:
"I know President Chavez well. Whether or not one agrees with all his policies, what is certainly true of Chavez is that he is a warm and friendly man with a robust sense of humor (who daily risks his own life for his country in ways Dick Cheney could never imagine). To treat such a man coldly is akin to spitting on him. As a country weve done enough of that. Say what you will, but it has only resulted in the self-celebration of our smirking spitters, while costing us international respect, American lives, and left wounds in the hands of our childrens future. The Cheneys, down to the OReillys and Hannitys and Limbaughs, effectively hate the principles upon which we were founded. They are among the greatest cowards in all of American history. I applaud an American President whos tough enough
to smile."
what was it the appeasers said about hitler"
"He smiled very pleasantly, and indeed had a sort of appealing and affectionate look in his eyes. My sizing up of the man as I sat and talked with him was that he is really one who truly loves his fellow man and his country ... his eyes impressed me most of all. There was a liquid quality about them which indicated keen perception and profound sympathy (calm, composed) - and one could see how particularly humble folk would come to have a profound love for the man"
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 24, 2009 - 11:44am PT
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f (i can't bring myself to call you 'dr' anymore), investigations have already revealed that several democratic members of congress knew about the interrogation methods--including waterboarding--and didn't object...they're equally responsible so save some seats at the defendants' table for nancy, etc.
and if barry is really your knight in armani armor, why is he hesitating? the point you miss is that barry looks like an idiot when he very forcefully says "no investigations"; then, after taking heat from the left, which even the 100th smartest man to ever run for president should have anticipated, says "ok, maybe investigations"; then, when the accused call the bluff and demand FULL DISCLOSURE of all classified material, and the media starts harping on another reversal, and congressional members of his own party implicated in the accusations (as outlined in a newspaper article over 2 years old), all of which even the 100th smartest man to ever run for president should have anticipated, says "well, maybe not investigations"
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just passing thru
climber
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Apr 24, 2009 - 12:19pm PT
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July 4 Tea Party
Alaska
Anchorage, Wasilla
Alabama
Birmingham, Daphne, Florence, Fort Payne, Gadsen, Hartselle, Headland, Huntsville, Killen, Scottsboro
Arkansas
Bella Vista, Conway, Fayetteville, Fort Smith, Mountain Home, Mulberry, West Memphis
Arizona
Arizona City, Camp Verde, Cottonwood, Marana, Mesa, Tucson, Vernon
California
Bloomington, Buena Park, Fallbrook, Irvine, La Quinta, Laguna Woods, Long Beach, Los Olivos, Napa, San Clemente, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, Simi Valley, Temecula, Thousand Oaks, Tracy, Yuba City
Colorado
Arvada, Carbondale, Cripple Creek, Evans, Peyton, Sterling
Connecticut
Glastonbury, New Milford
Florida
Arcadia, Bell, Brandon, Bronson, Deland, Estero, Fernandina Beach, Gainesville, Gulf Breeze, Homestead, Jacksonville, Kissimmee, Lakeland, Lithia, Miami, Navarre, North Port, Port Charlotte, Royal Palm Beach, Saint Johns, Seminole, Tallahassee, Venice, West Palm Beach, Wildwood
Georgia
Albany, Alpharetta, Bainbridge, Brunswick, Columbus, Duluth, Enigma, Fayetteville, Hiawassee, Lawrenceville, Marietta, Mcdonough, Newnan, Richmond Hill, Savannah, Senoia, Sunny Side, Tunnel Hill, Valdosta
Hawaii
Kihei
Iowa
Burlington
Idaho
Almo, Garden City, Idaho Falls, Nampa, Pocatello, Sagle
Illinois
Arthur, Barrington, Berwyn, Bloomington, Champaign, Chicago, Flora, Hoffman Estates, Joliet, Moline, Palatine, Pekin, Peoria, Rolling Meadows, Spring Grove
Indiana
Columbus, Knox, Lafayette, Otterbein, Rossville, Terre Haute, Warsaw, Westfield, Zionsville
Kansas
Athol, Garden City, Olathe, Overland Park, Salina
Kentucky
Jenkins, Richmond, Utica
Louisiana
Covington, Deridder, Leesville, Maurepas, Minden, New Iberia, Slidell, Sulphur
Massachusetts
Fall River, Middleboro, West Roxbury
Maryland
Lutherville Timonium, Silver Spring
Maine
South Portland
Michigan
Big Rapids, Byron Center, Clare, Farmington, Fife Lake, Gaylord, Grand Rapids, Hersey, Holland, Jackson, New Baltimore, Owosso, Port Huron, Taylor
Minnesota
Walker, Watertown, Winona
Missouri
Doniphan, Eureka, Kansas City, Saint Peters, Springfield
Mississippi
Forest, Gulfport, Hattiesburg, Hernando, Purvis, Ridgeland, Tupelo
Montana
Billings, Boyd, Sunburst
Nebraska
Omaha
Nevada
Eureka, Gardnerville, Las Vegas, Reno
New Hampshire
Berlin, Keene
New Jersey
Bloomsbury, Caldwell, Colts Neck, Hillside, Jackson, Keansburg, Landing, Manahawkin, Milltown, Wayne, Westfield
New Mexico
Clovis, Hobbs
New York
Camden, Candor, Commack, Greene, Huntington, Kew Gardens, Lindenhurst, Lyons, Marion, Massapequa, Norwich, Olean, Port Jervis, Poughkeepsie, Shoreham, Smithtown, Utica, Warrensburg
North Carolina
Buxton, Denver, Elizabeth City, Fayetteville, Goldsboro, Kernersville, King, Kure Beach, Maysville, Morganton, Murfreesboro, Newton, Shelby, Wilmington, Winston Salem
North Dakota
Williston
Ohio
Bascom, Cleveland, Columbus, Defiance, Galion, Girard, Mansfield, Medina, Newark, Republic, Sylvania, Wellsville, Zanesville
Oklahoma
Atoka, Bartlesville, Bixby, Hulbert, Jenks, Oklahoma City, Okmulgee, Sasakwa, Tulsa
Oregon
Beaverton, Clatskanie, Eugene, Newberg, Veneta
Pennsylvania
Bernville, Canonsburg, Chicora, Erie, Greensburg, Johnstown, Linesville, Somerset, Union City
Rhode Island
Pawtucket
South Carolina
Boiling Springs, Columbia, Moncks Corner, Myrtle Beach, Spartanburg, Townville, York
South Dakota
Belle Fourche, Rapid City
Tennessee
Cordova, Franklin, Greenbrier, Jackson, Kingsport, Knoxville, Munford, Paris, Signal Mountain
Texas
Abilene, Amarillo, Arlington, Austin, Azle, Bastrop, Bedford, Big Spring, Borger, Clyde, College Station, Coppell, Coppell, Copperas Cove, Crockett, Crowley, Dallas, Denton, Dublin, Duncanville, Friendswood, Garland, Gatesville, Gilmer, Graham, Grapevine, Hamlin, Howe, Kerrville, Laredo, League City, Lewisville, Lindale, Livingston, Lumberton, Melissa, Midland, Orange, Palestine, Paris, Plano, San Antonio, Sealy, Spring, Staples, Stephenville, Sugar Land, Tomball, Tye, Uvalde, Waco, Weatherford, Wylie
Utah
Bountiful, Orem, Saint George, Springville, Washington
Virginia
Abingdon, Midlothian, Woodbridge
Vermont
Essex Junction
Washington
Bellingham, Bothell, Clarkston, Granite Falls, Greenacres, Puyallup, Wenatchee
Wisconsin
Antigo, Fort Atkinson, Kaukauna, Superior, Wausau, Clarksburg, Greybull, Riverton
WND has been hosting its own tea party forum so citizens can exchange ideas, information and announcements about the "revolution." WND readers have been sending information on upcoming tea parties, including the following 34 protests being planned in 19 states and Washington, D.C.:
California
Buena Park Saturday, July 4, 12 p.m. at city hall, 6650 Beach Blvd., bring flags, banners, signs; lunch to follow
Los Angeles Saturday, July 4, from 7 a.m. to 12 p.m. at Santa Monica Pier
San Diego Saturday, July 4, time and place to be announced
San Francisco Saturday, July 4, time and place to be announced
Colorado
Denver Saturday, July 4, time and place to be announced
Florida
Walton Beach Sunday, May 17 from 1 p.m. to 4 p.m., at Emerald Coast Convention Center, 1540 Miracle Strip Pkwy
Orlando Saturday, July 4, time and place to be announced
Georgia
Atlanta Saturday, July 4, from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. at the capitol building located at 206 Washington St.
Watkinsville Saturday, May 9, from 1 p.m. to 3 p.m., Oconee County Veterans Memorial Park
Illinois
Chicago From Saturday, July 4, at 7 p.m. to Sunday, July 5, at 5 a.m. at Belmont Harbor on Lake Shore Drive
Louisiana
Lake Charles Saturday, July 4, time and place to be announced
Massachusetts
Boston Saturday, July 4, from 12 p.m. to 9 p.m. at Griffin Harbor on Congress Street Bridge
Michigan
Petoskey Friday, May 1, 2 p.m., downtown in Pennsylvania Park
Minnesota
St. Paul Saturday, May 2, from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m., state capitol building
Mississippi
Jackson Saturday, May 16, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m.on the steps of the capitol building
Laurel Saturday, July 4, location to be announced
Montana
Billings Saturday, July 4, location to be announced
New Jersey
Marate Saturday, July 4, time to be announced, Washington and Amherst Avenue
New York
New York Saturday, July 4, from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. at South Street Seaport and Pier 17
White Plains Saturday, April 25, time to be determined, at county office building at 148 Martin Ave
Oregon
Medford Saturday, April 25, from 10:30 a.m. to 1 p.m. at Veterans Memorial Park
Pennsylvania
Philadelphia Saturday, July 4, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m. at Independence Mall
Valley Forge Park Saturday, April 25, 11 a.m., Valley Forge Rd and Gulph Rd., in grassy location behind arch near bus parking lot
Tennessee
Jackson Friday, April 24, from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m., Liberty Gardens, 38 Channing Way, people should bring tailgate items such as grills, food, tea
Texas
Austin Saturday, July 4, time and location to be announced
Dallas Saturday, July 4, from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. at Victory Park
Fort Worth Saturday, July 4 from 3 p.m. to 7 p.m. at the Cowtown Bar & Grill
Kerr County Friday, April 24, from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m. on Guadalupe River at Louise Hays Park pavillion, speakers, barbecue, please feel free to bring children
Waco Saturday, July 4, time and location to be announced
Virginia
Annandale Saturday, April 25, from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m., Mason District Park, 6621 Columbia Pike
Washington, D.C.
Washington, D.C. Saturday, July 4, from 9:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m., at Upper Senate Park adjacent to Capitol building on north side
Washington, D.C. Saturday, Sept. 12, march on the capitol
Wyoming
Cheyenne July 4, from 12 p.m. to 5 p.m. at the state capitol building
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 24, 2009 - 12:24pm PT
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well, you're right about one thing f, obama never says anything
you believe whatever nancy says, good for you, but to answer your question, she would lie because she knows she would be implicated in any investigation because she never objected to the "torture", which, as a member of congress is her duty (remember, "uphold the constitution" and all that?)
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 24, 2009 - 01:41pm PT
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Worm
Why don't you list the evil sins of Chavez and justify comparing him to Hitler.
Did he invade any other countries? Did we?
Was he democratically elected?
What is the documented history of Chavez using torture?
Is giving oil revenue to the people such a big crime to justify the label dictator?
Really, make a side by side list of Chavez versus some of the real dictators who we actively support or give most favored nation trade status like China and he smells like a rose.
Spit up the coolaid dude
Karl
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 24, 2009 - 02:24pm PT
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For any who may not have clicked on Bob's link, incredible.
Bob, that is so incredible, and shows the unbelievable ignorance of many Republicans, even and especially the morons they elect.
Hope you don't mind my doing a copy and paste from your links.
This Repub thinks jesus put oil under Alaska, and that it was NOT formed from geologic plate movement.
I have to think that one of the reasons it can be difficult to get smart people to work in the government is because you regularly encounter people who are shockingly dumb, decrying efforts at educational attainment as "elitism" and wearing idiocy as a badge of honor. It's pathetic, but true. Consider this video, via Wonkette, of Energy Secretary Steven Chu's encounter with Joe Barton, Representative from Texas.
Barton basically asks Chu to take six seconds to explain HOW ALL THAT THERE OIL GOT UNDER ALASKA. Chu, who momentarily laughs, because Barton is a full grown man and...my God, this is the sort of question a CHILD would ask, the sort of question that would call upon the answerer to stare with beatific grace into the eyes of a SMALL, DUMB, CHILD, all the while attempting to remind oneself, that THIS CHILD can be taught...THIS CHILD need not wander the earth in simpleminded confusion forever and ever, ceaselessly stumbling into a crushing wind of stupidity.
So Chu explains, correctly, that oil is formed through complex geological processes. And Barton is basically like: SO HOW'D IT GIT UNDER ALASKA, ARE THERE MAGIC TEXAS OIL PUMPS. And Chu basically says, no, there's this thing called PLATE TECTONICS. And then Barton's like, "WHOA, PLATES? THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE WHAT JESUS WOULD DO?"
Naturally, Barton, this idiot manchild from Texas, celebrated his accomplishment on Twitter:
I seemed to have baffled the Energy Sec with basic question - Where does oil come from? Check out the video.
Yes. Please check out the video, which Barton's office uploaded to YouTube. Watch it. STARE AT IT.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Apr 24, 2009 - 03:06pm PT
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Fattrad wrote: "You think everything should be free and those that would destroy democracy should go unpunished."
I'm thinking that all the bankers and shysters who tanked the economy basically destroyed and did away with old-style democracy, and the harder we try to return to it, the less we will improve.
We are the only civilized, western country without socialized health care, for instance - and this is sure to come pretty soon, as are other aspect of socialism. I don't view this as a bad thing, only the alternative. The problem with deregulated democracy is that greed tanks the process eventually.
What amazes me is that, while I'm not an affirmed Rep. or Demo., old school repubs seem convinced they have something to say and have real solutions to our current problems, while few list the failings of the very system they promote, save that it (Bush) didn't go far enough in the direction that skuddled us in the first instance. If Bush only did this, or that, cha cha cha. That his entire orientation was off, that Dick C. and the others lacked the vision and wherewithal to govern effectively, that they really and truly were not up for the job, and in fact rank amongst the worst political administration of any modern country in the last 200 years, is something most every other nation realized long ago, but not something readily admitted by Repubs on this list. With such a lack of intgegrity and clear thinking, replaced in this case with a kind of psychological and moral arthritis, you have to wonder what they want beyond mere power. The old values died with the old American dreams that went the way of all that bad paper. It's over. Time for a new model.
JL
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Apr 24, 2009 - 04:14pm PT
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The politicians, both repubs and dems, have just as much to do about this as the bankers. The dems were pushing for home ownership for burger flippers, you know everyone should own a home, and the bankers found a way to do it.
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I agree with this to a point. What you don't mention are the shameless shenanagans that artifically inflated the home values so the banks could oft biger loans. Homes on my block that used to sell for 80 Gs just a decade ago were going for 800K just last year. It was all shuck and jive, paper vaule, and total balony. Who would ever believe it could possibly last?
I know Bush wasn't very bright, that's why I was Bay Area Chairman for McCain in 2000. But, much of what Obama and the dems are doing will only make problems worse.
I think Obama will sink or swim to the extent that he embraces a new model. We cannot possibly return to old-school democracy becaused the old systems that made it go - many of them false and artificial kinds of Ponzi rigs to begin with, or shamelessly exploitive, such as the medical insurance scammers -are simply not sustainable over the long haul. But people are very frightened about embracing anything brand new, so we are in for some exciting times!
Chavez was democratically elected with voters facing the barrel of a gun.
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Partly true, partly false. My wife is Venezuelan and my house is down there. Chavez is a little like Italy, which has the best and the worst of mankind all rolled into one big neurotic enigma. Chavez awakened the political conscience of an entire nation, and at the same time, he's a blowhard, a narcissist and a diplomatic buffoon with a backwards military mind who will never give up power gracefully. Venezuela is really in for it, I think, because like America, they are on a course that is not possibly sustainable over the long haul.
Who will be the next international leader? We sure need one to galvanize the entire world.
And while I'm at it, if we were return to anything "old," I think it would be the mindset that we Americans are awesome, and should act awesome, not piddly, greedy, grasping, small and pansy-assed.
Read the declaration to the Washington Monument:
It is proposed that the contemplated monument shall be like him in whose honor it is to be constructed, unparalleled in the world, and commensurate with the gratitude, liberality, and patriotism of the people by whom it is to be erected
[It] should blend stupendousness with elegance, and be of such magnitude and beauty as to be an object of pride to the American people, and of admiration to all who see it. Its material is intended to be wholly American, and to be of marble and granite brought from each state, that each state may participate in the glory of contributing material as well as in funds to its construction.
Stupendousness . . . I think whoever dares to be stupendous - in a brand now way - will soon rule the world.
JL
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 24, 2009 - 05:25pm PT
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Bob D is responsible for his own destiny, he chose to be born in this hellish world.
Then he points the finger outside of himself and says the world is at fault.
back to the drawing board for you ....
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 24, 2009 - 05:31pm PT
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just one question bob, if it's ALL the banks' fault, why is barney changing his story now?
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 24, 2009 - 05:53pm PT
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hahaha Bob
I knew would respond like this.
Never mind, it just went right over the top of your head.
It wasn't pertained to you personally but I used your post up thread as an example. What I said also applies to me too.
You're all right Bob don't worry ....
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Apr 24, 2009 - 05:59pm PT
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Welcome to the thread, John. Your maturity and insight is a nice change.
Bookworm said "concerned about being "american"? well, american administrations do not prosecute previous administrations because of "policy"...we hold elections "
So then you support Obama'a position on torture?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 24, 2009 - 06:25pm PT
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Fat, you continue to knock me out.
What you been smoking lately?
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