Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
The "how to" section of the 75 catalog complete with the first appearence that I can recall of the Stannard tandem Stopper sandwich complete with test results!
In his idle moments, even Bear 46 fantasizes about Overhang Overpass on a rack of hexes.
And Jstan, well, there's always a jug or two to dream on........
FOOPS!
Edit: from Shawangunk Rock Climbing, Richard Dumais 1985
|
|
Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
|
|
those scans are like time-travel, love it
|
|
More Air
Big Wall climber
S.L.C.
|
|
I loved those old Chouinard stoppers. When you used them for aid climbing, they wouldn't get stuck, like the newer curved ones do. Still got my Willians...great freedom of movement, easy to take on and off with crampons on.
|
|
Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
|
|
I must not have a life, to read this whole thread at 4 in the morning. I find much of this thread good but disagree with about 40 things said. Lots of inaccurate comments. I wish I had energy enough to go into detail. No matter. It's fun to read everyone's take on nuts, their history, and so forth.
The coming of nuts is often mistakenly attributed to Doug Robinson's great catalogue, you know, but long before that nice publication arrived, in fact nuts were brought to America in fall 1966 by Royal. He was the real champion, had been to England and was on his way to the Valley, with his scowling companion Don Whillans. Heading west from the Gunks, they looked me up in Colorado and wanted me to take them up a climb in Eldorado. I was already good friends with Robbins and of course had heard about Whillans. I assumed Whillans would probably mince-meat me or say something to reduce me to ashes, but to my surprise he and I hit it off amazingly well and remained good friends throughout his life. I think he may have recognized a kindred spirit, an equally individualistic outlaw more or less unfit for the mainstream world. We had some deep spiitual connection, no doubt. When he returned to England he made a special stop in Colorado to see me again and gave me a whole lot of old British coins. We reunited in England not too long before his passing. I loved that rascal genius. When I went to England and Wales with Charlie Fowler I tried to do all Whillans' classic routes (climbing everyday for two weeks I managed a handful of them).
Anyway, that day in Eldorado, after we climbed one of the most beautiful routes on this celestial planet, the vertical yellow-red six pitches of Ruper, mostly soloing (tied to our ropes)-- since neither Royal or Don needed protection at that level of difficulty. They had a few nuts, though, and Royal at belays would show them to me. He insisted we could start using them for everything. I took the two legends to Supremacy, thinking one or other of the masters would lead that overhanging hand crack. Neither really was in the mood and instead put me to the task, clipping some nuts onto me, as though I knew how to use them. I hammered in a trusty one-inch angle at a couple of appropriate places. That was really strenuous, hanging there by one arm, trying to find the piton dangling behind me on a sling, feeling for my hammer, trying to find a good fit for the piton, etc. Much harder than the climbing. Not long after, upon learning how well nuts work, I led that climb and many others much more easily than I could have with pitons. As a small aside, a few years later I watched Ed Webster lead Supremacy on sight (I was his belayer). It was amazing how he masterfully placed the old variety nuts two-to-four feet apart.
Royal's efforts were the real beginning, 1966, in my estimation, in terms of American nut use, although probably a few individuals from England living in America prior to that, or Americans who had visited England, were aware of nuts, I'm sure. It would be good to track down anyone who might have used nuts in the U.S., in any small way, prior of 1966.
Incidentally I really admire people interested in history. However we might disagree about certain details, we can honor as best we can those who went before. Thank you Jeff, Higgins, John Stannard, Roger Breedlove, Rick, Largo, Bachar, Werner, and all of you for your contributions in having excellent insights and in jangling my memories.
John, Pennequin is an interesting fellow. He has been trying for a long time to get me to contribute my "clapper" and other ancient artifacts. I think I said I was going to at least get photos to him, and now you remind me that I have completely let all that slip my mind amid the health meltdowns.
Regarding my haunt Eldorado. I was there and saw it all, from 1960 through the 1990s. A wild evolution. I would like to write a true history of it sometime, were I to muster the energy. Someone may have to dictate it, from my chair in a rest home.
I was in a bad place in my mind when hanging out with Erickson in the early 70s. Most people don't know I was well into plans to do the Naked Edge free, a few years before anyone else had thought about it, and I had the ability, but in that bad state of mind decided to give it to my friend Jim. I gave him the challenge, his eyes lit up, and he began then to embrace the idea. He started training and practicing. He used to go the Flagstaff Mountain and watch me boulder. In his best shape he couldn't step off the ground on any kind of hard boulder route, but put him up on a long forearm pumper and his brilliance came out. It was that Devil's Lake forearm pump experience. I liked his ethic for the most part, as he was trying to develop some kind of personal vision, and he lived by it for the most part. He was comically hypocrital at times, which took nothing away from my appreciation of him. Each of us is human, and I cited my friend at times for being more forgiving of his own behaviors than those of others. For example, he described my Vertigo route as done in "dubious style," when I rested with my hand on a carabiner a few moments on a 5.6 move near the top. No matter that it was among the first 5.11s in the country. But when Jim took a near ground fall, dropping some 60 feet off Black Walk, in somewhat uncontrolled eagerness to succeed, call it reckless if you want, though it happened only occasionally, he described that ascent as having been done "after one attempt." I told him I always had thought losing control and falling was the worst kind of style and not what one would call good style, if he were so interested in rating style. There were dozens of things such as that. In Yosemite he and I did a 5.11 hand crack down by the right side of the Cookie (can't seem to recall the name of the thing). He fell seconding and said, mildly irritated, "I could have done it with chalk." He had shunned chalk use but always brought it up when he ran into trouble. Finally he started using chalk a bit, as I recall. I don't know why I mention all this, other than because it's 4 in the morning, and I'm in a mood to ramble. Let me say Jim was great at spearheading nut use through the 1970s.
For humor's sake I'll end with an unrelated story about Erickson and me. We had gone to the Sink, in Boulder, a couple blocks from his tiny one-room apartment. This was before I became a tea totaler, but we were drinking a lot of beer. It was a rainy night, and at closing time as we wandered a crooked path out the door of the Sink a hippie in a blanket approached me and asked if we had a place he could stay the night out of the rain. Drunk, I freely offered Jim's room. "Sure, come on with us," I said. Jim looked at me with a curious stare. I don't think he was admiring my compassion. As we ambled toward Jim's upstairs apartment, the hippie said, "My friends could easily fit in with us and sleep on the floor." I retorted, "Sure bring em all." Jim looked at me with an even more curious stare. I don't think he was admiring my charity. We told them to enter and come upstairs one by one so that the apartment manager didn't see. Five minutes apart, some fifty people entered, creating a mass of stinking, farting, snoring, rain soaked humanity. I was already sort of cheating on Jim, more or less accidentally behind his back, with the love of his life, a beautiful music student, and so I was feeling guilty as we lay side by side, shoulder to shoulder, on his tiny bed. We didn't sleep much that night, with all the snoring and smells, and it fully dawned on us the next morning what we'd (I had) done.
Perhaps we must put the elegant, clean activity of placing nuts in rock in context with the madness of those times.
Pat
|
|
The Doctor
Social climber
Da Bronx
|
|
Awesome stories Pat, keep them coming. Those hippies would have turned me into a tee totaler too! The Dr.
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
I don't think anyone disputes Royal's position as the original standard bearer for the clean climbing movement. His early Summit articles "Nuts to You" and "Save South Crack" in the late sixties and his clean first ascent of The Nutcracker with Liz in 1967 firmly established his leadership by word and example for all to consider.
Beyond that bit of attribution, clarify away Oli. History is perspective above all and more akin to fencing than a joust. I would love it if this thread ends up as a reasonably accurate portrayal of the evoloution of clean climbing from many angles. Pardon the pun.
Good thing for all of us that the nut ball got rolling back when when climbers were few in number and the piton scarring not very widespread. It helped enormously that well designed nuts were far easier to place on the lead than pins once you mastered their use. The gear was absolutely crucial to making sure that the style wave kept moving forward as difficulty standards advanced. Most of the barriers were psychological at this crucial period. Hard to face the unknown with unproven tools but they soon established their worth.
A couple of classic shots of RR and Liz from Pat's collection. Royal on Ruper and RR twirling the future on his finger and looking stud for his gal, a personal favorite!
Edit: From Climb Godfrey and Chelton 1977
And the classic Sheridan Anderson portrait.
|
|
Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
|
|
I took both of those photos of Royal, just in case someone wanted to know.
|
|
Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
|
|
Sorry, I see you said so above. Where did you scan those from? Just curious.
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
The 1977 book that made Colorado famous, Climb! Pardon the back photo crediting.
Edit:And photo backposting......
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
"John, Pennequin is an interesting fellow. He has been trying for a long time to get me to contribute my "clapper" and other ancient artifacts. I think I said I was going to at least get photos to him, and now you remind me that I have completely let all that slip my mind amid the health meltdowns."
Pat, by all means please do follow through with Stephane if you can. Along with John and lots of other folks I funnel what I can to the Nut Museum as well (usually off ebay). In fact I just shipped one of these old rascals off to him - he's apparently been after one for decades...
|
|
Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
|
|
products like the one above were produced during what some call the "dark ages" for the Diamond C, a creative and technical low point perhaps - some may disagree, of course. The Yosemite hammer had disappeared, ovals were old and the Bod had yet to appear.
|
|
Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
|
|
thought this might go well w/ Oli's fine prose mentioning Don Whillans
what a fashion monster
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
Always was a dapper gent.
Bonington photo from The Everest Years 1986
|
|
scuffy b
climber
Bates Creek
|
|
Tennies on the Central Pillar?
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
Those plimsoles would be for the tricky rock bits as well as style points! Can you imagine whipping out the Vans for the crux? LOL Five Ten owes its start to a pair of Scats if I recall correctly.
|
|
Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
|
|
I'm looking for shades like he's wearing the pic
|
|
Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
|
|
Tears just poured out of my eyes, like water out of a drinking fountain, when I got the letter telling me Whillans had died.
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
Big loss but what a time he had!
Ascent 1974
|
|
Jello
Social climber
No Ut
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 8, 2007 - 01:38am PT
|
Met Don Whillans at the Buxton (England) conference in 1981. Drank a few pints with him and the rest of the British alpine aristocracy (like a kingdom of maniaical penurious self-annointed blueblood colonialists), after which Don gave the keynote slide show. With ONE slide! It was a bad one at that, but with that totally forgettable picture up on the screen, the master understated stoyteller proceeded to keep the audience of tough bastards in hysterical bent-over paroxisms of laughter and mirth for an hour.
What an incredible treat for a quivering mass of Jello!
|
|
BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
|
|
I haven't logged on here in quite a while...I see Mimi asked me where I saw the wooden wedges. On the Brown-Whillans route on the Blatiere in Chamonix. It was this offwidth that had varying ages of wooded wedges in it. They looked perfectly adequate for pro.
It was surprisingly hard for something done in the fifties. Most of it was booking and jiving along good rock, but that Fissure Brown offwidth pitch was pretty hard. Especially freeing around the wooden wedges, which made it hideous. On the no-pro parts of it, I think it was 5.10 or so.Hard to tell, Russ could have walked up it. I dunno how to rate offwidths. Too wide for handstacks...barely, anyway. For sure those dudes Brown and Whillans weren't wankers.
It was a great route, and I almost had my head removed by a falling rock for added spice, but pretty ho-hum fare for climbing in the mountains (the near-but-not-quite-fatal-falling-rock).
I bet it is sport bolted now.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!