Steve's House of Smoke

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Mimi

climber

Sep 26, 2006 - 09:30pm PT

The difference between you and every other person who has played this game is that with respect to technical mastery and competence based on relevant experience, neither you nor Bwana-Dick could pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel before you started up on your 39-day sufferfest.

You fellas were bare-assed naked in front of the world, bellowing your incompetence for all to hear, by the style in which you chose to do your route. Nobody in the history of El Cap has ever looked so foolish and yet curiously been so unashamed or utterly lacking in the ability to acknowledge or learn from your mistakes.

It should be abundantly obvious now that no one was going to take your prize from you. Yet somehow you continue to champion as in many past posts, the absurdist position that being competent and properly prepared somehow would've diminished the value of what you experienced. You're living in a fool's paradise if you think any thinking person buys that argument.

While you're feeling frisky, before you set foot on WOS, how many aid pitches longer than 100 feet had you ever led? Were any of them A3 (consensus rated) or harder? While leading, how many hook placements had you successfully stood on prior to facing the blankness?

Bwana-Dick, we know you're around. Answer these same questions without slithering or distortion.

MSmith

Big Wall climber

Portland, Oregon

Sep 26, 2006 - 10:31pm PT

Well, Mimisoft, I seem to have you good and riled up. You may have more passion on this than even me. Hey, lots of questions to be asked, but I submit that the following is more substantive and important than any you have offered: Was this route done to less than the highest standard, that is, would another party have done it better. So far all the evidence points to “no”, making all your grumblings rather moot, I’d say. So rant, rave, and grouse all you want, ‘cause your only alternative is to send the SA.

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Sep 27, 2006 - 11:02am PT

mimi,

the only thing "poor" style i see in their ascent is this:
1. they spent some time up there,
2. they didnt bother to fit into the valley heirarchy or follow the approved "ST road to new routes on El Cap" formula.
(i realize st was not around, but clearly, there were some expectations about this).

you can prove them unworthy. do the route. so many have shed so much BS here on these guys without any action.

mimi you also give PTPP crap but at least he went to give the route a shot. are you ever going to attempt it or are you going to sit there and throw worhtless BS these guys way without any reason.

BS, thats all i get out of your arguments about wos, mimi. anyone can do that. clearly if you and mr. grossman are riding the ethical white horse you can offer up more than the horsesh&& you have offered up?

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Walla Walla, WA

Sep 27, 2006 - 12:00pm PT

Various people have advised us that saying less is saying more. As much as that cuts across my natural bent, I will take that advice. I think that people are about sick of hearing my lengthy responses to WoS criticisms, and I really do think that every reasonable question and criticism has been addressed at length. This is not the thread for yet another WoS installment anyway.

The Mimisoft program is obviously caught in an endless loop and stopped accessing data segment memory long ago. Since there's nothing I can do to help without the ability to reboot the machine it runs on (would somebody with local access please do this, so we can get something new and interesting from the AI?), there's no point in continuing to provide it with additional data that is useless to it anyway.

Russ Walling

Social climber

Out on the sand, Man.....

Sep 27, 2006 - 12:11pm PT

Beyond a Dead Horse (nice name for a route)

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Sep 27, 2006 - 12:39pm PT

Yeah Russ,I already used Dead Horse Walking on Deadhorse Point.

Euroford

Trad climber

chicago

Sep 27, 2006 - 12:54pm PT

is it just me, or every time the WoS stuff gets brought up BOTH sides of the argument sound like idjits.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Walla Walla, WA

Sep 27, 2006 - 01:00pm PT

Euroford, I am really curious. Seriously. Exactly what sounds idiotic about saying, "I'm not going to keep thrashing over the same old issues, and this isn't the place for it anyway," and, "somebody who wants to keep the criticizing alive should go do the SA first"?

sketchy

Trad climber

Vagrant

Sep 27, 2006 - 02:12pm PT

I think the fact that you guys did a difficult first ascent without a lot of experience, and succeeded is pretty sweet. It sounds like the bolt count was much lower than first reported, and the fact it took so long just means you stuck with it. Its a shame the elitist sh#t on your ropes, but the fact that none of them have succeeded on it pretty much backs your claim. However you are right about less is more, these people are still bitching after all of these years and your only wasting time arguing. Eventually some else will climb it and most questions will be answered.

MSmith

Big Wall climber

Portland, Oregon

Sep 27, 2006 - 02:29pm PT

sketchy wrote, "Eventually some else will climb it and most questions will be answered."
That about sums it up. Nothing's left to cover until then. Also, this is Ammon's thread, not a WoS thread.

Nefarius

Big Wall climber

Fresno, CA

Sep 27, 2006 - 02:35pm PT

I don't think the SA will change a thing. For one, the SA isn't going to happen by any of the folks on the "other side". It will happen by someone still shy of the crest of "the hill". Perhaps the evil, single-pin-placing Ammon? I don't see any of the flamers, or people on the "ethics" side, getting out and doing it, honestly. I mean how many of them still climb? Of those that still *do*, how many are climbing anything hard? Not meant as a slam or anything, just reality. The reality is how many people are prepared to go riding down a slab all day, 60+ feet at a time, for a couple of weeks? OK, so now say you're in your 50's with a family, a job a life?

Mostly, I just feel that the only person who can change their minds is themselves, or probably more correctly, one of the more elite of their group, as I don't know that a great number of them ever had the skills to send the route form the get-go. Certainly those who have tried, to date have failed and their own shitting party couldn't do more than jug the lines to chop the route.

I think more likely to be the truth, however, is that it is likely nothing will *ever* change the line in the sand that has been drawn here. I think both sides are well entrenched into their beliefs and that is that. Sometimes you just hit a point where it's better to just go out and climb and accept that this is the way it is.

Euroford

Trad climber

chicago

Sep 27, 2006 - 02:36pm PT

MB1, i wish i knew where i got the quote from, but its something like: "doing the same thing over and over again expecting a diffrent result is the definition of insanity". i seams 99% of the time this gets brought up thats about all that goes on.

and blablablabla "why don't you do the SA!??!"

becouse nobody wants to. doesn't that make you proud?

MSmith

Big Wall climber

Portland, Oregon

Sep 27, 2006 - 02:39pm PT

Euroford, I'm not tracking. By "because nobody wants to. doesn't that make you proud?" are you saying that no one has done the SA because no one wants to?

WBraun

climber

Sep 27, 2006 - 02:51pm PT

It's the house of smoke, take a break from the war ......

MSmith

Big Wall climber

Portland, Oregon

Sep 27, 2006 - 02:53pm PT

Nefarius,

"I don't think the SA will change a thing." After all that's gone on at ST over the past year, and given the fact that 3 regulars on ST have been on the lower pithes, one would have to conclude you are right.

Werner,
Great ad. Where did you find it?

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Sep 27, 2006 - 02:54pm PT

"I don't think the SA will change a thing."

you mean that even after the SA we will be arguing about this still?

hahaha. WoS threads to infinity.

Euroford

Trad climber

chicago

Sep 27, 2006 - 02:56pm PT

yup. i mean why would you? i think about that climb and i can't come up with a SINGLE reason why I or anybody else would want to do it. i think about the only thing you would get out of bagging the SA would be to prove your an obsessive compulsive.