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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Apr 13, 2009 - 08:15pm PT
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Norton thinks Republicans are Conservative.
Norton's funny.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 13, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
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Teddy Roosevelt did some pretty good stuff. That Abe fellow wasn't so bad, either. And Dwight was OK, too.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Apr 13, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
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Nice Fet !!! Feel like I'm ringside at the fights...oh, Wrong there Lynne, that's zip's thread. Smiles....and peace.
Edit: note that when we score a punch the silence is deafening...hehehe. (Oh, sheee, I'm gonna get killed for this...what am I doing on a political thread. I have no discipline.)
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 13, 2009 - 08:28pm PT
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Chaz, I have never met a Republican who does NOT define his party as "conservative".
What's so hard about the definition?
Being Republican means being conservative.
You do not agree with this, for what reason?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 13, 2009 - 08:31pm PT
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Lincoln freed the slaves. What, about 140 years ago.
So, what have Repubs got to show for themselves lately?
Sara Palin? Joe the Not a Plumber? Rush Limbaugh?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 13, 2009 - 08:55pm PT
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Americans More Optimistic; Still Hate GOP
The latest New York Times poll is loaded with good news for the Obama administration and news that would be devastating for the GOP if it were ever able to penetrate the conservative-media echo chamber. While the public is still pretty pessimistic about the future, it's considerably less so than it was before Barack Obama took office. Thirty-nine percent of respondents in the Times poll think the country is going in the right direction and 53 percent say the wrong direction, a substantial improvement from January, when the numbers were 15 and 79, respectively. Similarly, 20 percent of those polled think the economy is getting better and 34 percent worse, versus 7 and 54 in January.
But it's the political numbers that are truly striking. Obama has a 66 percent approval rating, which is the highest this poll has recorded, while the GOP's favorability is at 31 percent, the lowest the poll has recorded in 25 years of asking the question. Arguably more remarkable still is that, asked whether Obama or the GOP Congress would be more likely to make "the right decisions about the nation's economy," respondents broke for Obama 63 percent to 20 percent. That means that even within the 31 percent rump that holds a positive view of the GOP, at least a third trust Obama's instincts on the economy equally or more. And why shouldn't they? Despite Rush Limbaugh's best efforts just 2 percent of respondents blame Obama for the state of the economy, compared to 33 percent who blame George W. Bush. (Wall Street and Congress come in for 21 and 11 percent, respectively.)
The Democratic Party, while not as popular as its leader, is still pretty popular, with 56 percent favorability. Moreover, 19 percent fewer respondents think the Democrats are too heavily influenced by "big business" than feel the Republicans are, and the Dems have a massive 35-point edge on the question of "which party is more concerned with the needs and problems of people like yourself." The poll also gives the Dems a 16-point edge in respondent self-identification, up from 10 points in February, and just a tick off the inaugural high of 18 points. (Without sifting through the figures too obsessively, this looks like the largest edge since 1992.)
There's more along these lines on taxes (74 percent of respondents think raising them on those earning over $250K is a "good idea"), health care (57 percent say they're willing to pay higher taxes themselves for universal coverage), foreign policy, and the like. The usual caveats all apply, of course--it's just one poll (though others seem to generally conform), public sentiment is volatile, etc., etc. Still, I encourage anyone interested to give the whole poll a look.
--Christopher Orr
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Apr 13, 2009 - 08:56pm PT
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Norton, freeing the slaves was a big deal. It would be difficult to repeat events of that magnitude on a regular basis. :D
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 13, 2009 - 09:07pm PT
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Good point Lynne, so how about naming ONE significant thing the Republican party has done since 1864?
How about voting, overwhelmingly, AGAINST the creation of Social Security? You proud of your party for THAT?
Name a couple of things, ok?
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Apr 13, 2009 - 09:08pm PT
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Norton writes:
"Chaz, I have never met a Republican who does NOT define his party as "conservative".
What's so hard about the definition?
Being Republican means being conservative."
I'd buy that that's your belief, if you hadn't written - just two hours earlier - THIS:
"The LARGEST increase in the size of government occurred from 2000 through 2006, when Republicans controlled ALL THREE branches of government. Personal responsibility?
The Republican party wants to DENY you the personal responsibility of what to do with your body if you happen to be female. And they want to EXPAND government by PROSECUTING women and doctors who happen to make the PERSONAL choice of abortion.
Repubs are SOCIALISTS, just look at the one TRILLION dollars Bush gave the banks last October.
SOCIALISTS: This year alone, the Republican passed Medicare Drug Program will cost sixty BILLION dollars.
Generational theft! Think of the children! Oh My !
I could go on and on, the examples of what they say, versus what they want to legislate are too numerous to mention here."
BOTTOM LINE:
One minute, Norton writes: "Repubs are SOCIALISTS"
Next, he writes: "Being Republican means being conservative"
Which is it? Norton.
Can't be both.
But it could be neither.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
the base of the Shawangunk Ridge
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Apr 13, 2009 - 09:14pm PT
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if its a pretty obvious reality that politicians (both parties) are self interested would be despots, why is there the urge to beat down one party so vigorously?
in theory, dog sh#t and cat sh#t are both inedible. does it really matter which tastes worse? a more viable solution would involve one that doesn't involve the consumption of feces...if you get my drift.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 13, 2009 - 09:18pm PT
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Chaz, thank you.
But really, I just love to insult anyone who identifies themselves as being either conservative or Republican.
Its all about exposing ignorance either way.
For example, just lately in an effort to say something, Republicans have taken to throwing around the word "socialism",
like in we are all going to end up on communal farms.
So, it IS appropriate to throw examples of Republican "socialism" right back in their ignorant faces.
Thanks again for pointing out the differences.
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apogee
climber
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Apr 13, 2009 - 09:20pm PT
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Skip, you are a kool-aid drinkin' GOP droid who is wandering lost because the head of the snake has been cut off, leaving you to do nothing more than quiver and thrash.
Come to think of it, that's a pretty good metaphor for the current state of the Republican Party.
The words 'Republican' and 'Conservative' no longer go together, get it? The schism started around the time of your beloved Reagan, and the final implosion of the snake's head occurred 2000-08.
Re-create your party, separate the true conservative values-wheat from the religious-chaff, and the GOP would have a winning solution. For now, though, they just quiver and thrash. Pathetic- somebody hit that thing with a shovel!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 13, 2009 - 09:25pm PT
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Skip, I did not insult you personally, just your political party.
Surely you know the difference.
And I was interested in your opinion when I asked you for your thoughts on what changes your party would have to make to be able to compete again in national elections.
You had some good thoughts.
Why the sudden hostility?
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
dangling off a wind turbine in a town near you
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Apr 13, 2009 - 09:53pm PT
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 13, 2009 - 10:00pm PT
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ok Skip, have it your way.
If I insult your party, then I insult you personally.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
the base of the Shawangunk Ridge
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Apr 13, 2009 - 10:03pm PT
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turd sandwich ALL THE WAY!!!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 14, 2009 - 02:50pm PT
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You oughta be ashamed of yourself.
Dead Party Walking.
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Binks
Social climber
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Apr 14, 2009 - 03:02pm PT
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The GOP lost the center, and nothing they are doing now will get it back. They need to actually change what they are doing. Until then it's all just flailing about for a reaction. That won't work anymore. They yanked everybody's chain for so long that they induced a profound numbness. Georgie was "the boy who cried wolf". I'm sitting in the airport and they still have to tell me what color the terror alert level is at. I have no idea what it even means and if I did why would I need to know? People need to do their damn jobs and hire people that are competent, and not idealougues. Competence: an idea that went out of fashion in a big way during the Bush years "heckuva job, Brownie".
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mdavid
Big Wall climber
CA, CO, TX
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Apr 14, 2009 - 03:06pm PT
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unreal that you folks actually believe democrats are working for your interests, about as dumb as following republicans
Neither party is right or wrong on everything
InsertPartyNameHere are working for their own interests, power, and money for their friends; this paradigm will never change
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 14, 2009 - 03:20pm PT
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Expanding healthcare for poor children is in ALL our interests.
Giving the MIDDLE CLASS a tax break IS IN MY best interest.
FINALLY pulling our troops out of Iraq on a deadline IS in our best interests.
Actually doing something to stimulate job creation IS in ALL of our best interests.
All the above OPPOSED by Republicans.
All the above endorsed by the Democrats.
There IS a big difference between the two parties.
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