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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 19, 2008 - 01:54pm PT
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Some people have notably brought up the risk discrepancy observable between old-school/new school.
I've known a lot of climbers over the years; maybe 300.
A good deal of my buddies/acquaintances have died in the last 10 to 15 years;
I've lost count but, 15-20 for sure.
... hardly any of them from rockclimbing related accidents.
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Ed Bannister
Mountain climber
Riverside, CA
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Dec 19, 2008 - 02:08pm PT
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"wayyy dangerous"
It turns out, trad climbing demands that the climber think!
Yarding on upside-down jugs and clipping preplaced draws is akin to painting by the numbers. Yes it requires skill and exact execution, and ohh is it SAFE!
safe from responsibility of balancing a myriad of factors
route selection You don't even have to be able to climb the route!
weather You never have to know what a dropping barometer, or an alto cumulus means when belaying on bolts, from your bumper
you are safe from thinking about pro interval and position relative to the route, for the climber and the second.
pro placement security
belay stance selection and the rest
routefinding
rock quality stability,
which way to throw the dinner plate (don't drop it on your girl)
choose safe, don't think trad, it's for unsafe people.
until you hear about two idiots at lover's leap that are in shorts and tshirts, two pitches up, and it starts to snow, and they don't know how to rappell down.
safe, it turns out, is rendering a situation harmless, by what you know,
Ed
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Albert
climber
The Valley
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Dec 19, 2008 - 02:23pm PT
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For Chris Mac: Why would you post such crap dude?
Yoho: You callin' Twight a fag? huh?
I bet you wrote this (horribly written) "article" to make yourself feel better for being such a pussy...
to quote Werner: Hey ....fuk you Yoho
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Dec 19, 2008 - 03:00pm PT
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While pondering the probability you might consider what a climber day is and whether that is the conditional event appropriate for risk measurement.
For example, the airplane probability was measured in flight hours. In fact, the most risky flight operations are landing and taking off, each of which take a matter of a few seconds.
The hours spent flying are relatively low risk by comparison so long as the hours of any given flight do not exceed the available fuel.
So for flying, if one were going to use a single measure to predict risk, it should be the number of flights, not the hours flown or the miles traveled.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Dec 19, 2008 - 03:35pm PT
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Chris Mac - It was that lady that loved Barbra Strizand(sp?), and was always va-clempt(sp?)!! Mike Myers character.
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nutjob
Stoked OW climber
San Jose, CA
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Dec 19, 2008 - 05:40pm PT
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50:50 chance of broken bones after 10 years of climbing? That doesn't sound at all right to me. I don't personally know anyone who has broken bones from climbing. I know of people in this extended virtual social circle, but I'd be surprised if 5-10% of people had broken bones from climbing.
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nutjob
Stoked OW climber
San Jose, CA
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Dec 19, 2008 - 05:43pm PT
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Judging partners and their experience....
I've been a little promiscuous in the last couple of years; I generally ask screening questions like what routes they have climbed and talk about some of the details to validate their experience. I also ask about what kind of epic events they've been through, what led to those events, how they got through it, etc.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 19, 2008 - 08:42pm PT
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”I thought by posting that article there might be some good discussion about the dangers of climbing.”
Of course we appreciate the OP.
I know you are not particularly new to the forum Chris,
But,
It’s important to remember a few things here: Supertopo contributors can easily be characterized, on the whole, as a bunch of fat, out of shape, balding, computer stranded never-has-beens who haven’t really climbed much, or even touched stone, in the last 20 years … plus a handful of really hot cute chicks.
(WTF???)
So we tend to behave, by and large (except of course those few wayward really cute hot chicks who’ve wandered onto the board), as a cloister of festering, insecure male adolescents.
In short, we love to be provoked, so:
We'll get to the bottom of this Yoho thing yet…
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Dec 19, 2008 - 08:52pm PT
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I remember a relevant article By Greg Child. He rapped off the end of his rope or something and ended up in the hospital. He wrote an analysis (I don't remember how scientific)where he discussed the probaabilty of making dumb moves relative to how long you climb. If I recall is conclusions was that if you do it long enough, you're gonna fuçk up eventually. Double check everything. Anyone have that one readily scan-able?
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Dec 19, 2008 - 09:33pm PT
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as noted by others, the authors statistical premise is fundamentally flawed in multiple ways, and most are fairly obvious!
helmets?
free soloists?
climbing long routes in less than stellar weather or when days are short?
lead climbing vs. top roping?
cragging?
rapping?
experience?
known rock fall zones?
i used to tell my mom (back when she made me call her from the road on sundays as i drove home from yosemite, just to let her know that i was safe and sound) that the most dangerous part of my climbing weekend was calling her from my cel phone whist i was driving...
and of course, now that i have out lived her, there is no need to make those calls any more.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 19, 2008 - 09:53pm PT
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Make the call anyway Matt.
After all,
It's your mom.
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apogee
climber
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Dec 19, 2008 - 09:55pm PT
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" Supertopo contributors can easily be characterized, on the whole, as a bunch of fat, out of shape, balding, computer stranded never-has-beens who haven’t really climbed much, or even touched stone, in the last 20 years"
The ST Forums Post of the Year!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 19, 2008 - 09:57pm PT
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Not to be taken literally, or to the bank or anything.
And not that there's anything wrong with it either way...
(Kingsbury Brothers excluded of course)
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Deemed Useless
Social climber
Ca.
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Dec 20, 2008 - 01:42am PT
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I broke my right tibula & fibula on a sport climb & no I did not "deck". Ten feet and bad luck is all it takes.
The leg healed, but the head games have not ceased.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Dec 20, 2008 - 04:39am PT
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tarbuster-
i would give almost anything to still make that call
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jbar
Ice climber
Russia with love.
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Dec 20, 2008 - 04:59am PT
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Rokjox - right on bro! I'd like to post the exact same thing only it would be the exact same thing. I don't have nearly your experience climbing and I'm not the greatest climber but I'm safe and methodical. I'm particular about who I turst and require logical reasons for doing the things I do. I can tell when someone knows their shiz and if said person offers advice or gives me tips I listen. I only got into climbing for something to do outside and because a friend was a sponsored climber. He isn't world famous but he's one of the best climbers I have ever seen and I trust him with my life (obviously). I have had the opportunity to follow him up some stuff I would never have tried on my own and he is the one who showed me all the basics. I had never climbed anywhere except on the rock but this winter I decided to check out a gym. Come to find out I do everything wrong. I don't use a grigri, I don't belay by holding the brake side way up in the air and catching it with my left pinkie b4 sliding my brake hand down, and I don't leave 10' of rope sticking out of my tie in so I can do a backup knot. Oh yeah, and I don't wear shoes that are so tight my toes curl and I have to take them off after I finish each route.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Dec 20, 2008 - 05:16am PT
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Sure it's dangerous, but not nearly as dangerous as we might guess, cause judging from the number of serious errors made EVERY WEEK by boat loads of climbers, you'd think there would be bodies stacked up at the crags if climbing were really dangerous.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 20, 2008 - 01:32pm PT
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The carnage in Eldorado Canyon seems to get worse by the year.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dec 20, 2008 - 01:39pm PT
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Right on ROX!
Especially the confidence bit.
My best partners are the ones that exuded confidence in my ability to complete the lead.
I'm going to have to saddle up and actually read YOHO's long-winded treatise here in a bit.
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